Yet Another Balk Question

[Umpete]

R1, pitcher engages the rubber and brings his hands together at his chest and stops (pauses) to take a sign from the catcher. From this position, he comes to the set position, pausing again before pitching. To me, it looked almost like he was coming set twice - not much difference in his two positions. I have this as illegal, am I correct?

[Umpire in Chief]

I have this as illegal, am I correct?

Looks good to me. Good call.

[Mr Umpire]

This is known as "Double setting".

First, the pitcher is not suppose to address the rubber with his hands already together. The umpire should be telling him not to do that but many of us let it go b/c it will otherwise mess him up for the game(and my reference for this is for younger kids, 13 y/o and higher should be able to get over it and adjust). Addressing the rubber with hands together is not a balk unless Fed has something different and possibly could. But, otherwise, no balk.

Second, if not corrected by the umpire, then he is not allowed to come set again. Again, younger kids may want to be addressed while not on the field to prevent messing with their head too much. If he does, then it is a balk as in your OP. Reason is b/c he has come set and any other movement will be considered as beginning his natural pitching motion so he better not stop.

All of this I say is in accordance to the rules but I would also keep in mind the level you are calling. Do you want to call it, address it and if so, when to address it? While on the field or in between innings?

Otherwise, it is a balk.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Mr Umpire

[mstaylor]

First, welcome to the site. MrUmpire and Warren has explained it well. Depending on the age and experience level, I will address it either directly with the pitcher or with his coach. If the experience level for the league is low then go to the coach. If the league experience level is higher, even if the particular pitcher isn't, then address it directly with pitcher. After that balk it. The quickest way for him to learn is to see runners move up.

[Umpete]

Thanks for the responses. This was a 13 YO Prep league. They have a "grace period" for calling balks, and this was the last day. I addressed it with the coach, who, of course, informed me I didn't know what I was talking about.

[Mr Umpire]

Well, then, you inform him after the grace period it is when you call "Balk!" and cite rule 8.01( for what the Set position is and 8.05(a) for him making a move naturally associated with the pitch. Then, eject the coach for arguing balk calls if he wants to keep pushing it.

Cannot stand when a Rat thinks they know more than the umpire even though they never cracked a rule book.

[mstaylor]

This is why you should call balks from day 1. Obviously all ther grace preiod did was delay the balks calls that are now going to happen.

[Ump Rube]

This is why you should call balks from day 1. Obviously all ther grace preiod did was delay the balks calls that are now going to happen.

In my league we call balks on day of the regular season, but give them grace in the exhib. I don't know if it really helps or hurts, but it does somethin'.

[treedog24]

Don't get me started about "Balk Warnings":BD: Dumbest F'n' thing ever. Why don't give the Offense a warning about interference, oversliding, etc.? Who the Jack @$$ who decided they couldn't teach the pitchers how to pitch?

[jjb]

We were asked a year or so ago to give "1 warning" to each pitcher in our 9-10 year old leagues. I told them we weren't giving out "balk coupons" to anybody. We don't call ticky-tack balks down there, but they eventually learn what to do and what not to do.

In answer to your question, Dog, balks are the most common causes of umpire/coach conflict, because (1) coaches don't read the rule book, (and, if they did, they found the pitching rules too long to actually read), (2) they revert to the "well, everybody knows that...(fill in stupid myth here), or (3) they lay awake at night trying to figure out some type of "sure-fire-never-fail-pickoff-move-that-nobody-has-ever-thought-of-before", and then get pi**ed when they learn that nobody's thought of it because it's illegal.

We show them the JEA Balk Video at Coach's Training: the ones that show up and pay attention actually learn something.

[treedog24]

We were asked a year or so ago to give "1 warning" to each pitcher in our 9-10 year old leagues. I told them we weren't giving out "balk coupons" to anybody. We don't call ticky-tack balks down there, but they eventually learn what to do and what not to do.

In answer to your question, Dog, balks are the most common causes of umpire/coach conflict, because (1) coaches don't read the rule book, (and, if they did, they found the pitching rules too long to actually read), (2) they revert to the "well, everybody knows that...(fill in stupid myth here), or (3) they lay awake at night trying to figure out some type of "sure-fire-never-fail-pickoff-move-that-nobody-has-ever-thought-of-before", and then get pi**ed when they learn that nobody's thought of it because it's illegal.

We show them the JEA Balk Video at Coach's Training: the ones that show up and pay attention actually learn something.

I work one league where they want a warning for the first two weeks of the season for the 11-13 year olds. I purposely call the most ticky-tack balk on each team the first time they get on base so that I can call the balks that should be called at this age level. I guess they want the umpire to teach the pitchers how to pitch and if that's the case does that mean I get to fix all the stupid things they teach their pitchers?

[Tyennie]

What would help immensly would be the LL folks not allowing the crappy mechanics for pitching that some kids have. Not saying that all LL programs allow it, but if there is one, it is one too many. Teach the kids proper mechanics when they are young, so that when they get to the JrLL, Jr Br or whatever league (13 -15 and above) they don't have to re-learn how to pitch. Heck I have seen high school age pitchers that will start in WU, and the first movement is with the free foot forward about 6 inches. Illegal - technically no, just sh**ty mechanics. Or the LL guy that starts in set and his first move is a big backward step (with free foot) toward first to generate momentum.

tyennie