SnareDrum

Well said. Notching is the key. Also, getting a "balls first" indicator that stops at 3-2 2 out is a bonus. Seeing the strikes first (WHY?!) and clicking through the third strike, fourth ball, and third out is just unnecessary IMHO. But if that's what you like, cool. But DO notch it.

This one almost bit me a while back. I was BU same situation and R3 was tagged going home about halfway down the line. F1 had the ball at this time and fired to 2B where the trail runner had rounded and had to dive back. It was high throw and the runner was way safe, but I was thinking that I should have held back towards 2B just for this case. When this mechanic is used, the BU is "keeping an eye on" the runner that's around 2B, but is he also keeping another eye on the rundown just in case thePU is blocked from a tag or needs a "what did you see" on a possible OBS/INT? Also, what are some other scenarios where either umpire in a 2-man would find himself going solo covering a rundown?

So there it is. Good to know.

Its not that carrying it is bad its that using it incorrectly as in some later posts is bad and too many umpires who carry it use it incorrectly. If you dont carry it its harder to use it incorrectly. One story not mentioned is the umpire who looks directly at it to set it or to reset it and misses a play. True! I work with a guy who brings the indicator up right in front of his nose after every pitch as if he's looking at an instant replay or something... when he's PU. He almost missed a play at the plate once because as the runner slid in he was staring and clicking.. I take a little professional pride with not looking at the dang thing unless absolutely I have to, and I usually know what it's going to show anyway. Since a lot of the scorekeepers I have to see border on horrible, I'll usually carry one on the bases. Usually I'll use it and sometimes not. (When I don't use it, I do find myself asking myself "what's the count". When I do have it, I seem to know it without looking. Strange.) Also true as I read earlier that, no, the pros don't use them on the bases and it's trickled down that perhaps it's unprofessional to use one. Regardless, it seems to almost be personal preference or association edict. Yes, it's the PU's job. The PU has a lot of jobs, but every now and then he'll ask his partner for an assist. It's the PU's job to watch for a swing, but if he asks his partner "did he go?" does his BU say: "not my job!" If I'm BU and my partner asks for help, I'll help if I can whether I have my indicator or not. If I'm PU and the 4th pitch whizzes by, the DC calls time, and when we're ready to resume, I glance down ever so subtly and see 1-1 for whatever reason, I don't believe for a second I'm going to say "1 and 1... PLAY!" I just can't. I also would never as a BU tell my partner the wrong count on purpose. The point I guess is if you want to use an indicator as BU use it (unless ordered not to). if you don't want to use one, don't. If your PU partner loses the count and asks for help, it's up to you.

I would argue the exact opposite. (I think this is where you were headed, as well) This language does not allow latitude for the umpire to call a balk for something that is not specifically in 8.05. Conversely, it allows us NOT to call something that technically is a violation of 8.05. Calling something that is not in 8.05 is dangerous. We should ALWAYS be able to explain the exact rule that was violated when calling balks. i.e. "F1 feinted to 1B without completing the throw", rather than "F1 deceived the runner back to 1B". Additionally, by maintaining that the comment is not a rule in and of itself, we avoid using it as the sole reason to call a balk. I beleive that's exactly where I was going with the "on the other hand" paragraph. In a post earlier, somebody mentioned the ol' fashioned step-off & fake to third and a balk was called under "he deceived the runner". If that's a valid reason, then it needs to be followed with HOW and which 8.#.# was it? As to why the language is there? It does seem that the statement is there to better define the balk section and why it's there, not as an on-the-field "IMHO he deceived the runner". I've seen a few "balk or not" type of questions on tests or in a forum, but have never seen one that had "the runner was deceived" even as a choice of answer. If my UIC asks me at post-game why I called that balk, I better have a better answer than "deception". Maybe wording like: "It is a balk when the the pitcher deceives the runner(s) by: 1).... etc..." That is, if the D word stays in there.

It's almost like they left the language in there to allow the umpires some latitude. If the pitcher does something not specifically within the rules, now it's up to you interpret "deception". By leaving these words there, they've pretty much allowed the umpire to make the balk call, even if what the pitcher did was not specifically, or "technically" mentioned. On the other hand, yes, the way it could be interpreted is simply that the purpose of the rule is to prevent deception. But does it say anything (book not handy at moment), about the umpire using his judgment of deception for making the call outside of the specifics covered in the book? As SDIX said, it is not a rule in and of itself. It seems to be more of an explanation of the intent of the rule. This is the mindset I have right now.... I've never used "he deceived the runner" as the sole reason in making a balk call, but I've seen and heard of it.

Thanks to both of you! I just tried and it went right through this time.

why are you "glaring" at your BU? It is not his job to keep track of balls and strikes.. that is the PU job. Yep. It's the PU's job. Perhaps I should have said "another hopeful glance so we can can get this game moving." I keep track when I'm on the bases for most games just in case... I don't think that I'm the only one that does... and to help keep more of my head in the game. At pregame, I'll ask (Unless I know for sure due to working with him often) if BU is keeping track, if something like this comes up. If he isn't then I won't ask for the assist. I get asked, or ask, about once or twice a year but it's usually due to a long delay or crazy action, or scorekeepers inquiry.

I'd call out too, but I swear, I saw a post somewhere recently where someone said that in the sitch I have above, the call is SAFE. If I have time, I'll try to find it...

THANK YOU!!! Now THAT makes sense! BUT... is the call SAFE, then OUT (eww), or just OUT? And does the same apply at 1B? Just trying to get it all straight... I want to toss this to a couple of newbs tonight. I am not making a call until the play is finished...so either the player touches the base before the fielder "SAFE!" Or the fielder with the ball touches the base before the runner..."OUT!!!" I would not call or signal safe at first if the runner beat the throw but missed the bag as that is not an accurate call...I look at it like calling an out on a tag play and then seeing the ball roll away. You don't make the call until you see the whole play... That's what I was thinking (and seeing the "whole play" is something I really rub in too). Thanks! BUT... I still remember some others saying that at 1B if the runner beat the throw but missed the bag it's SAFE (as I've mentioned somewhere else, I've never seen it, but...)... Situation: Nobody on, easy grounder to F6 and BR thinks he's going to be out by a mile. BR lazy trots as F6 bobbles the ball (Coach will have BR running his laps later!). Throw is late, but because BR is being lazy, he obviously to all steps over first with a long stride. Now F3 is standing there with foot on bag. Safe or Out? Do you wait to see what the BR does next? If you say safe, and the DC and you could have a very polite discussion about it, what do you tell him? This is a good thread... I'd rather get any "confusion" out of the way now. It is indeed an interesting set of rules in a game where the object of the game is to touch the bases in order instead of just run past them (tongue planted firmly in cheek! settle down!). Love this forum!!

THANK YOU!!! Now THAT makes sense! BUT... is the call SAFE, then OUT (eww), or just OUT? And does the same apply at 1B? Just trying to get it all straight... I want to toss this to a couple of newbs tonight.

Well, after the Death Glare to my BU... Three basic responses are going to show on this one: 1) I'm the PU and I'm right!! OUT! 2) The home book is the book of record, but I believe that's only for scoring and stats, the pitch count is only a "frill". 3) Since an out is on the line, AND if there is even the slightest doubt in my mind, get the bookkeepers together with PU and BU (if he dares to come near you now) and QUICKLY reconstruct the pitch sequence. This will prove the PU correct. Also, I can usually "recite" the sequence myself for most AB's, and I would do that here out loud, and if there was still confusion maybe have the get-together. A pow-wow like that is rarely necessary... I'm leaning towards #1.

The link for Mid-American Umpires Summer Clinic on their site and here on the Empire seems to be DOA. If anybody or any MAU guys has some info, please message me or re: below... If anybody has any contact with MAU, they might want to pass the word so the clinic people aren't wondering why they're not getting any sign-ups

Dragon brings up the point I was going to make. With kids playing with non-wood bats, there's a HUGE sound difference between hitting the bat and hitting the fingers. Sometimes making a call isn't always about what you see -- there are other senses you can use, too. Common Sense? Common indeed! (good one!) But I hope that most of us are using more than sight to make calls... I can hear a pitch bounce in the dirt then the pop in the glove. I can hear that little tick of the ball on bat as the batter swings and know that I have a foul ball or foul tip even though the I didn't see the ball change direction. I watch 1B and listen for the ball. I hear a dull sickening thud and then the ball landing at the batters feet as he drops as if he's been shot and I know he got whacked even though I didn't see the impact. On an HBP or any call, putting all of the evidence available in that split second gives you the decision, and yes, it's up to you to decide what evidence to use and which to ignore. Last week, a batter ducked to avoid a pitch but left his bat up. Ball glances off bat then whacks the guy in the helmet and goes foul. The helmet and bat were VERY close together, and the loudest sound was the helmet... but I heard the soft "*tick* of the bat & ball first. Didn't see it hit the bat, but I knew what I had from the sound... FOUL BALL!! OC in the 3B box certainly didn't hear it. But when I told him I heard it hit the bat first, he just nodded and started flashing his signals. God bless my ears!

Exactly. Coach may have thought he could bully the rookie. But if a coach throws his helmet, throw the coach. He was practically daring you to toss him. Oblige him. But, great job on standing your ground!

Ditto w/ carolinablue. I ease up a bit on the vocal, especially the STRIKE 3. While they will grow to learn that the ump CAN be a mean ol' snarling, growling bear... I can be emphatic and empathetic while they learn, and hopefully stay with, the game.

I agree. I'll probably also remind him that now that he's in a HS dugout, he needs to start eyeballing those umpires (I haven't had his team yet, but I bet I will soon and I'll alert him to not go to far with the familiarity). Indeed, just "looking the part" will be a big step for others and himself. Thanks!

Forum Deja Vu! Exact/Similar happened a couple of weeks ago when I was PU. Bases loaded, 2 out and they try a safety squeeze on a 2-1 pitch. Batter squares, offers and goes after the inside pitch as it hit his top-hand fingers with a loud *splat-OW!* while he was holding the bat. I start yelling the dead ball while the catcher picks up the ball and touches home with his foot. As we put the runners, and fielders (who were half in the dugout), back, the defensive coach calmly came out and asked why there wasn't an out. I told him and he turned around and went back to the dugout. The OC who had come down the line from the 3B box heard what I said and looked completely disgusted... and yelled at his batter for screwing up the play. I called out, "The count is 2-2. Last pitch was a strike. Play!" Neither coach asked me to to get help. After the game, my partner said he saw the same thing. From somewhere I heard "The hands are part of the bat!" Not really sure why they would that about this play, but I just smiled a little and remembered OBR Myth #1. As someone mentioned earlier. this makes a great pre-game discussion with your partner, though we hadn't on this night, as well as a post-game. As slow of a play as it can be, it seems a lot of fast and crazy things can happen on a bunt.

As you and noumpere mentioned, I'm his mentor, and in umpiring, mentoring isn't temporary (at least to me)... Over the last year or two, our schedules never got us together so I kinda' lost track of him and his progress, and I do feel bad that it go this far. We have a lot of super-good USSSA and traveling teams from all over the area, and it only takes one bad Blue to have them spread the word about the umpireS. I was kinda' hoping he'd step up a little bit, but since he won't, I will. It looks like I'll have him again next Monday, and we'll have a nice heart-to-heart at pre-game. If he acts like he doesn't want the help, I'll alert him that we have our "summer guys" about to get on the rotation and he's in danger of losing games or getting pushed out to the rec league wasteland. The video is a great idea. The last time I did it on myself was about 3-4 years ago, and it was an eye-opener. I'll volunteer it and promise him I'll "brutally honest" on myself as well... THANKS!

I think at that moment, we both paused while waiting for the other to say something. I was waiting for him to ask for help and he was waiting for me to volunteer it. I never saw him after that game because he pretty much took off. I will see him this week if our fields are ever converted from ponds, and I'll be able to talk to him a little and see where his head's at. Great reply... thanks!

This guy is an exception out there. But IMHO, doing my best, standards, love of the game, and effort and expectations have little to do with money... not hatin' on money!! I expect the same from any I work with, any where at any time, regardless of money. City leagues need good Blues, too.

This is the first of a couple of my partner situations, but one at a time. It's our city league, upper-level "competitive" divisions (some GREAT baseball happening here!), and I get to work with him every now and then. Pay isn't anywhere near doing HS, but it beats sitting at home watching "CSI". We have a pretty good blue crew of both HS umpires and guys that are just plain good, and the league has a hard-fought rep for good umpiring. He's been doing it for about 4 years and has recently been hired as an assistant coach with a local HS. He was the PU the other night, and it was the first time this season I've worked with him... he had on a dark blue t-shirt, hat w/ logo on backwards, and shin guards on the outside. I asked about the shirt: "As long as it's blue, who cares." Shinguards? "I can't get my pants over them." (Though I know he could) The league does provide some pretty nice shirts that I'll use every now and then. From the first pitch, I knew something was strange. As we all know, it's the consistency of the strike zone. None of that here. He set up with his chin right over the catcher' head, and the consistency just wasn't happening. Same pitches, same locations, different every time. There was no chirping from anywhere because they've cracked down severely on that, but if it had started I would not have been surprised. Every now and then the pitchers would turn and give strange looks to the dugouts, but the coaches were mum. From my B and C, I could tell that nothing on the outer thirds of the plate was going to be a strike, and anything down the pipe was 50/50. Over the plate and below the knees he started to call and it got lower, ending the game with a called 3rd that actually bounced on the plate. He has taken A LOT of heat in the past about his zone, and after the game one of the coaches caught up with me and asked me what was up with that zone. I just said, C'mon now, coach," and kept walking. I was PU for the second game, and after the first inning he comes down the line to the plate to chat (I know!) still wearing both ball bags ("They're hard to take off"). He said, "After watching you, I know I have a lot of problems with my zone. I don't know what's wrong." I said nothing. Should I have said, "Dude, if you want help, I'll help you... and let's start with the clothes and shin guards?" Or since he stopped just short of asking for help, leave it? Also that wwas a tought spot to be chatiing up since there were a few fans and coaches nearby. Weighing on me is this. When he was rookie, I was his trainer/mentor, and I worked him hard behind the plate, and he was pretty good... for a while... but he seems to have started going his own way now. I'm leaning towards having a talk with him, especially since the Chief told me he's going to start losing games because he (Chief) is getting tired of it. The old man has tried talking to him, but nothing seems to be sinking in. My guy has also booted a couple of calls this season... IFF (he called it with two outs and bases loaded. He said later it didn't matter because the infielder caught it anyway"), and fair batted ball vs. base runner to name just a couple. So... your guy, or ANY guy, needs help, but he's not asking for it, and doesn't seem to want it Ideas? Similar situation you've been in? All input welcome!

This is the best answer posted - everything else is just filler. Yep! Everything else, indeed could be filler, but he did ask a great question and request answers. Great answers AND input showing up with the filler. (OP reminds me of MLB Playoffs a year or two ago and Tim McClelland at 3B w/ two runners. Interesting call there, too.)

What a great question! Answer (since you asked us for one): I make the safe call, at the minimum the signal, but probably as mtnump said, the verbal with the signal.

The Missouri 5 day Monsoon has finally headed east. Head's up!