SnareDrum

Above vid just to show that it could happen. It was the state championship game... they were apparently upset over the umpire's K's... they lost 13-1, $1000 fine to the school and the catcher lost his scholarship... Without the video it would've been just about impossible to prove anything. Please write those guys up! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- (from pbumpires.com) ga high school catcher loses college scholarship. Catcher ducks pitch that hits umpire in head. Steve Weisher 6/16/2008 5:30:00 PMCARTERSVILLE, Ga. -- A "missed pitch" has cost a Georgia high school baseball player his college playing time. Gordon College has withdrawn its offer to catcher Matt Hill. Hill was the catcher during a game in which Hill seemed to duck and miss catching the ball which hit an umpire in the face mask. Copy and paste the link below to view a video of the event. State athletic officials fined Stephens County High School $1,000 and placed the baseball program on "severe warning status" Wednesday for beaning an umpire during the state championship game last weekend. Video of the incident during the game on Saturday shows Stephens County catcher Matt Hill ducking at the last second and the pitch striking umpire Jeff Scott in the face mask. Scott told Channel 2's Richard Elliot, "(The pitch) came as a surprise. Disbelief more than anything." The pitch from Cody Martin came during the third and deciding game in the state championship between Stephens County and Cartersville, won 13-1 by Cartersville. The players and their coach still insist there was a mix-up on the pitch. But Georgia High School Association executive director Ralph Swearngin, who watched video of the pitch, didn't see it that way. "I made my decision primarily by watching whether the catcher tracked the pitch with his eyes," he told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "In my opinion, he did not. I think that he would have been searching for the ball if it were a matter of being crossed up." "I'd say the video pretty much speaks for itself," said Scott. Scott also said the pitch did injure him. "I'm currently under a doctor's care and I'm still waiting for all the results to be evaluated." The Stephens County principal has apologized for the incident and said he thinks the punishment is fair. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=-tsFSALrA1o

THAT'S THE ONE! It doesn't look like a fastball, but taking one square in the grill sucks regardless. This one was pretty blatant by the catcher. I know a lot of guys out there remember seeing this, and if you haven't, well here you go... I think there's more to it regarding the aftermath, but I can't recall for sure. If anybody else does, chip in. Pearberr, you were fortunate that your pitch wasn't a foot higher. Write them up! Thanks Austex!!

In our main City League, it's written in the adapted rules under Sportsmanship, that each head coach is responsible for the behavior of their fans (games at mainly neutral sites). If there's a problem, the umpire is supposed to request that coach to talk to his fans... and give him a chance to tone things down. If the fans are still a problem, they leave it to the umpires to decide who goes to the parking lot, but if a fan gets tossed, the manager will likely follow especially if he made little or no effort to cooperate. I think their goal is to help prevent an escalating "back and forth" between fans and umpires. We also inform the coaches of this rule at the pre-game coin-flip. Since most of these fans are parents and the coach knows them pretty well, we have very few problems. Last year, I did toss a couple of fans, but only one coach. In one instance, the coach really tried to get the guy to knock it off, even threatened to bench his kid. Fan didn't last too long after that. In the other, the coach said he wasn't going to tell the fan anything (fan turned out to be a sponsor), and they were both gone within a few minutes. Both fans had basically decided that loud, salty language directed personally at the umpires had become appropriate. (Edit: The league rule basically allows the ejection of a fan only after we've requested that a coach intervene, or if the fan's conduct deems an immediate EJ. Outside of this league, I generally put the fans on mute unless they really go off the chain.)

(Does anybody remember or have a vid of an umpire getting blasted in the facemask a few years ago when the catcher and pitcher did it on purpose? I think it was a HS playoff somewhere but I can't quite remember...) I kinda' agree with Rich Ives. I think the kids did this on their own and even their coach didn't have a clue. Perhaps the kid you punched out was a guy that never got to play much but always hustled in practice and was everybody's buddy, so the high-strike K peeved them off. The catcher could've even done it alone. All he has to do is ask for a fastball inside & up. Regardless, file every report possible because, as some have mentioned, if this is a pattern, it needs to be stopped. And even though every game is a new game, please mention this to all the other guys you work with this season. A couple of weeks down the road, one of them may have the same team and they'll see something or have something happen. ONce MAY be an accident, or worse, a temporary lack of sanity and judgment. Two or three times and this team is going to have major issues.

If you saw it, you should call it. I just called it for the first time myself, about a week ago. It wasn't a drag bunt, but a RHB. Pitch came in high, but in my periphery, I clearly saw the batter step on home plate as he made contact - instead of just taking a CLEAR 'ball.' Bunt was in fair ground, but I killed it right away. [FED rules, so it's supposed to be called, unless I've messed up the FED rule.] This may be the EJ part of the forum, but I didn't need one - not a peep. Now I might get killed here for this, since I've already said the pitch was way up, and people will wonder how I saw it. I can't answer that, other than to say that I did. F2 was going up for the ball, and I think I was, too, because was blocking me. But I think the batter having to reach so much may have made me more prepared/aware of that potential issue. So I saw it, and I got it. Same rule violation/penalty. Similar situation, but yet different. On SDIX's, you really had no choice. You would've had problems either way, but will some say as they did earlier that you were "looking for it"? HokieUmp, that's similar as mine. Saw it and called it, but it was the plate more or less right in front of you. I'm sure the rocks won't fly at you two as hard as they did at me (simialr situation, yet different), but this is really turning into a rather captivating thread.

I gave everything I found to my Chief and he's going through it and highlighting the areas or specifics, then he's going to catch up with me and we'll create or regurgitate some common situations. He's not computer savvy so he's leaving the copying/pasting etc. up to me. As soon as he gets back with me, I'll be it up on here, hopefully soon. Our target is to prep for our summer season, so it shouldn't be long. Besides the link from Dix up there (LL specifics removed on this end), I found and printed these for Chief... http://www.rulesofba....com/quiz1.html (an 10 question OBR sample from the Jaska & Roder) It's pretty interesting... We'll probably use all 10. http://www.icaoa.org...test-2008-1.htm and http://www.icaoa.org...test-2008-2.htm from 2008. It is for HS and we use OBR, but still mostly good. All three of the above come with and without answers. We'll also have a few basic mechanics questions of some type because we have a few guys that as PU just dig a trench and camp out behind the plate all night (and yell "FOUL TIP!" on fouls back to the screen!), or as BU make calls from the foul side of 1B on ground balls to F6 or F5... If anybody see's something on these links that's been changed or you want to inquire about, feel free!

@Archangel: At first I thought you had the guy that I had the other night, but I see that it wasn't. My guy DID have his shin guards on the outside, his hat on backwards, and kept yelling "FOUL TIP!" on any foul that went back off the screen... It bit him later, but that's another thread to come. (Of course, in the 2nd game when he was BU, he had TWO ball bags on and a knee brace on... outside his pants.)

10-4

Since this a common problem at this complex, I may even at plate pre-game tell the coaches that if a batter needs to know where the lines are, I'll happily grab his bat or my brush and sketch them in not just so he stays in, but it may even help with his established stance and positioning, while reminding them that the black markers are on the corners of the boxes... or just during the game, every now and then draw 'em in especially if I see a problem developing. As was mentioned before, without the white lines or a "draw-in" this probably should have been a "let it go." I'll see the coach tomorrow barring rain and then again next week. It'll probably be "water under the bridge", but you never know...

Great Job!. I had one of my "Best ever" in a similar situation when my partner got in a wreck on the way over. It was a little nerve-racking and I was sweating and worn at the end, but it all turned out great and the coaches and fans tossed plenty of compliments. Partner got a broken leg and some bruises...

Understood. When I first found this forum, your posts, and a couple of others that have chimed in, caught my eye right away , and I've been reading quite a few of them. I respect what you're saying and where you're coming from. I'm looking forward to reading more of what you have to say, and really looking ahead to communicating with you and the others more as the seasons flyby. I am indeed way behind on clinics and camps due to expense... it's been a long time and they're not cheap... and circumstance, though It looks like I may get to pick one or two up this summer. Thanks. (Itwas not my intent to give different information in post to post, but rather, as I kept replaying it in my mind, perhaps I was trying to better clarify theentire scene in those replays. Fail.) I'll leave it at that, but I'll respectfully reply/respond to whatever you guys got as best as I can. There's a lot that has sunk in here, and yes "extreme" could be a word for a lot of what's up there. On my end, I think there's a reason for it, but I'll have to bounce that off of you guys another time. RK

I have learned something here and that's, as you said earlier, the spirit of this rule. I have not and would never go looking for this call but have called it once on a normal pitch and foul ball but the batter was extremely far out of the front of the box, obvious to all. Would you EVER make this call on anything besides a drag bunt or IBB? OK, so I guess "looking for it" = I should never look for batters feet to make sure they're in the box. Thought I was taught that once, but I guess that's wrong. Being aware of the what's going on... where the fielders are (Why is F3 there? Possible OBS on R1.), where the runners are (R3 has a 40 ft lead. Snap throw from F2 possible and the batter is way back), is the pitcher's foot all the way on the rubber (holy crap he's halfway off it in the strech. Balk coming.) is the batter in the box (he's almost on top of the plate with a runner on 3rd in a tie game. Squeeze coming? He better be careful where he steps.)... and are any of them in a place that could, well, cause a problem. Am I the only one that checks or is aware of these things? That's being, prepared, aware, observant and non-complacent, not "looking for it". Then I zone in on my responsibilities and as the play develops, I let it all come to me and I don't get surprised very often.Perhaps it's the ballplayer in me that keeps me thinking a little and on my toes for what can happen. Many many many times, I've let that call go because I either couldn't tell for sure if he was all the way out, or it was just too close... and over time I think I've only called it 3 other times. Twice on bunts when I was sure his foot was definitely down, and another jumping over to foul off the 3rd pitch of an IBB. I've never seen a player step that far out at any level, but he did. I understand intent, spirit, and letter. Some of the "intent of the rule" is to not allow the batter to stand wherever he wants or step out of the box to gain an advantage, not just for bunts or IBB's. If that's the case, perhaps they should just eliminate the front line of the box, or all of them. We're pretty hard on the pitchers for every little thing they do so they can't gain advantages on runners or batters, but it seems the batter can do whatever they want, especially if they know their umpires don't want trouble. INT/OBS is sometimes not "obvious to all", but the call is made. Catch/no catch is sometimes not "obvious to all", but the call is made. Many calls that we make outside the play itself aren't "obvious", and we all know that sometimes we're the only one that saw it. But the call is made. Honestly guys, would a good umpire let go and ignore every call that might cause "trouble" (do they teach that at clinics/camps?). Some of you may say, "No. But a good one will let a few go." Well I do too, but not this one in this case in this situation. As an umpire, it it is not my job to interpret the intent of any rule, but rather to either apply or not apply it in a given situation based on what I saw and know, with experience thrown in. In this situation, I applied it and many believe I should not have. I will think twice, but quickly because there's a play going on, if it happens again and keeping in mind what was said here, I'll probably lean towards the traditional silence. We'll see... Also, it seems the only "trouble" is with the large group that said to ignore it. Nobody at the park, except the ejected coach (and judging by a lot of the threads, EJ is no "trouble" to a lot of you at all), had any problems with it at all. Criticism is also most constructive if it is given. As shown, there's not much of it being given.

Excellent!

Hmmm... Constructive criticism? I was beginning to wonder if any would show up. Doesn't seem to be the norm. There was no real/formal post-game. But my partner asked me after the game how far he had stepped out and I told him it was at least the width of my hand (I know I said earlier that it was about 3 inches, but it was more like 5-6). He then asked me how I saw it and I told him the pitch was low inside and bat met ball right over the foot and because he was ALL the way up in the box in a tight/closed stance... meaning the batter knew where the markers were... it was actually pretty easy to see. He said "good call" and laughed at what the coach said since anyone that's seen me work would definitely NOT say I was doggin'. My Chief found me later for the EJ report and simply told me "good call" and he was glad I ran the guy... and how far he had stepped out. I told him and he nodded and left. 1) Exactly. 2) I was surprised too since some of my calls are so loud they actually make people jump a little sometimes. With all the people and coaches yelling from so close, my voice got lost in the hubub. My partner said he heard, and I think a couple of fielders did too. The hesitation by me to sidestep up the line, check the runner scoring then the touch at first, then the the step-forward for the triple-check of the cleat mark and quadruple-check again contributed. An immediate bellow would've froze everything. As I recreate the play, it's actually getting clearer. His next time up, same stance in same place. He lifted his foot and put it down in the same spot IN the box as he crushed a hanger in the middle of the zone (after the game, he came over and shook my hand)... Two batters later, the batter drew in the front line for himself. I'll have more to say on this whole thing later. I'm going to bounce it off tonight's partner and some guys next week and see what their call may have been a nd also if they choose insult & bash or respect & construct... Thanks!

We have a league here in town, Rec 9 & 10 with a no lead-off rule modification. Runners out if he leaves a base before the ball crosses the plate. The umpires are told to make the call immediately if the ball's not hit, or make the call after the play. They used to use flags. It's a single umpire for this league now (behind plate & a a fun place for new umpires!) so it's a hard call to make.

It's a ball or strike. You get a changing room? GEEZ, I'm in the wrong part of the state. The bunt... don't worry about that. I was in a a venting moment. But yeah, we got a changing room... couple of them actually. But for some reason, one of them is really crowded because of a couple of tractors, some shovels and rakes, and about 500 bags of diamond dry; the other is kinda' creepy because the scorekeeper keeps peeking at us while she keeps score.

Indeed. I'm going to be seeing one of my early mentors this weekend. Almost 80 and still working. He'll probably hit me with a shovel.

First, Thanks Guys. I think. But no not new, and no, not a greenhorn. But if I couldn't take critiques from peers, I would've logged out long ago. I understand that the rules are only a part of the game. They're necessary and well thought out, and written and tweaked over decades, and we all must take pretty much the same tests on those rules every year. I believe there is no harder sport to officiate (just the term, settle down) OR play. It's practically the only sport where the all-around knowledge isn't actually "taught", but rather, handed down in a way. There's also not a better sport on the planet. But the rules are there for integrity, spirit, fairness, common sense, etc. Not knowing them is asking for a disaster.That said... As PU, yes the ball/strike is the first responsibility. That low inside pitch to a batter in the front of the box. The ball never reached the front of the plate, but in the slot as my eyes tracked it, then in that flash where bat met ball, in the edge of that frame I clearly saw where his foot was (perhaps periphery was the wrong word). I can't say whether it was a strike because the ball never entered the zone of course, but it would've been close. There is no time to intentionally look down and check where a foot is or was at contact if I'm doing my job, but in this case I saw it. In this sport unlike some others, almost every call happens in that split second. But I have learned to not base that decision on what the possible response might be or because I don't want trouble.The consensus is overwhelmingly "You blew that one. You shoulda' let it go and moved on." It seems to be about discretion (?) and Spirit. Looking at some of the respond-ers, OK, I'll agree. I was told once that "You are not bigger than the game. You're just the most important part of it." There's much more to what he said, but I'll wait. It was not my intent to be a Davidson or to ruin anyone's night or to show off that "See I know rules." I saw it. I called it. Shoulda' let it go. So it's post-game and we're in the changing room and you say, "Rog, great game back there. You were dead on. But I need to talk to you about that batters box call..." (btw, YES, if a coach comes out pointing to any footprint, gone)

Seems they took care of negative advantages taken by both the offense AND defense. Baseball Rules History!!

It's the rule but it's in there that base runners must retouch after a dead-ball. I think something close to the quote is: "If a foul ball is not caught the runners return. The umpire shall not put the ball in play until all runners have retouched their bases." I do nothing except that. (As BU, I have whispered to a young runner to get in the habit of touching up after a foul. I've also caught a coach at a half-inning and asked him to remind his runners of the same thing, but only if they've been way off.) There's no penalty or consequence that I'm aware of so generally if their somewhere in the proximity of the bag, we're good to go...(Category: "Spirit of the Rules") ---Check RunnersFieldersPitcherBatterCatcher "Play!" ) It also re-super-imposes in my mind before the pitch where the runners are. The situation was in high-school, my playing days, where our R3 had an 8-10 foot lead and a foul ball went OOP and he just stayed there. Next pitch was a line drive single to score the lead run. Their coach pops out and appeals that the runner didn't retouch after the dead ball. My coach said something like "WTF?... The Umpires, some good old timers, looked a little confused at first. They huddled up, and came back. They agreed. There was no retouch. BUT, there was also no penalty for not doing so. Their coach goes crazy because he wanted the out (he had done this before and talked the blues into it). One of those old timers was one of my first instructors, and he said that the reason they put that in there was to help prevent an Umpire from putting the ball back in play too soon and causing a runner to get tagged or picked-off. I was always taught to go back and touch after a foul, I didn't know why until then.

No particular order of response here: (yes I meant PU) Spirit vs. Letter of the rules, yes there are plenty. But I can't anticipate or predict bunts. In both the OBR and FED, the rules are quite specific as to the infraction and the penalty and there's not a word 1about bunt. What if the DC had spotted this and came trotting out? "Ooops sorry coach. You caught me. Batters out!" ? The low inside pitch, the ball on bat, and the foot plant were all in my direct immediate peripheral vision. An outside pitch and I probably don't see it. The foot was not only completely out and on the ground at contact it was WAY completely out. So, I let it go over and over and over week after week... I'll just let the batters step wherever they want... unless they bunt? To clarify, I don't clean the area around the plate. I will give a brush over with my foot to cover up some of the cleat marks and flatten a dirt clod or two, maybe toss a rock. If a batter does make that step, I like to have that reference point as pointing it out to a coach usually ends the discussion right there. I said "aware", not looking for it. How can you put the ball in play if you don't check to see if the batters feet are in the box? And if one foot is on the border, yes I'm going to be very aware of it. ("Hey Blue, isn't he out of the box?" No hes out of it, but there's no line so he's good!) I don't go "looking" for any call. I attempt to make myself aware of all possibilities, and I make the calls that I see that I know are right. That, I believe, was the case here. I respect all of the replies and input. But lets say I let it go, and now the batters on this team have caught on that they can set up in the front of the box on short, low-ball pitchers and step as far and wherever they want because there are no lines left I'm being lenient. Then another team starts stepping in front of plate on contact because the pitcher has mean tailing slider, but there are no lines and I'm not calling it. So I guess my question/post would be this: It's late in the evening or afternoon after several games on the same field. The infield foul lines and batters boxes are obliterated. The boxes are marked clearly with the fabric markers the grounds crew uses to create the lines that are now gone. Batter hits a base hit but steps clearly, and quite far, out of the box forward or directly in front of the plate on contact with the ball, and YOU SEE IT and don't call it because you don't want to be nit-picky. The DC,and a few fans, questions why the "no call". What do you say? How far does he have to step out before a call, or is it always a no-call since he wasn't bunting or trying for a HBP? He fakes bunt and pulls back but he's in front of the plate, so it's no call becasue no bunt? How far is too far, if you bother to call it all? Call or no-call, I better be ready to explain to a coach or chief or evaluator why. Not wanting to make trouble or be "nit-picky" may not suffice. What if it's a foul ball on the infield and there's no line and it stops three-four inches to the left of where the line was? So I see something that's an obvious infraction and I take it on myself to interpret the rules and Letter vs. Spirit and decide for myself to go with a no-call because I don't want to make trouble... ? I was taught to make the call to the best of my ability and if there's trouble, oh well. I'm not looking to incite riots and TRYING for outs, infractions, violations, etc. But if I see it, I call it. Perhaps a new thread could be: "Rules violations and infractions that I ignore because I don't want to make trouble." Yes, I think that in the plate pre-games, I'm going to mention that the lines will or have disappeared and those big black things you see sticking up will have to suffice. If your batter needs a line drawn, I'll do so. ALL input welcome. I see you're concerned and so am I.

DIX: Thank you! Kick taken and error corrected. Much rather brain fart here than in a game. That's what this Empire is for and I'll add that to my own "Myth/Not a Myth" list soon. But by not vocalizing "Time" and making the assumption that all eyes are glued on PU, I believe that some occasional craziness could occur. If there's "time", the ball is dead... But the runners don' t return and touch (as they're supposed to?). Batter just makes his preps and we move on. And if it's a dead-ball, the batter should be able to step out of the box all the way with no problems. That may just be a mechanic or clarification of the future as it's seems to have fallen by the wayside... Let's save that discussion of waysides for another time. I always, after every foul or dead ball, and after all are ready after Time has been called, go through the process of putting the ball in play as the PU. It's a bit of a basic routine for me and there are no smirking coaches. I also peek at the runners to make sure they're returned and touched. Habit. As a former coach, I've "smirked" a couple of good umpires on that one.

I saw a couple of other "First of the Year"s so why not... 13U, OBR, R3, short pitcher, tall batter, I'm BU. Batter is waaaay up in the box so naturally I'm going to be little more aware of his feet. It's the third game of the night, so the batters box lines are long gone, but the fabric markers for the outline are blatantly visible and sticking up 2-3 inches. If a batter asks, I'll draw a line or two or I'll just tell him it's the black markers (every now and then during the game I may brush them in a little.) They nod and set themselves accordingly. Also during the game, I keep the area around the plate pretty clean so I can easily spot, and show coaches, offending cleat marks. This batter's front foot was almost on where the front line would be. On the second pitch, the batter absolutely crushes one to deep center. At the *ping*, I glanced down and sure enough he had really stepped into it. As he took off and R3 came home, I stepped forward and looked down. Since there were no lines, I always want to be sure and have something blatantly obvious, hopefully with a cleat mark. He had stepped over at contact by a good three inches. As the ball bounced off the fence, I raised my hands and called out, "Dead Ball! Batter's Out!" and signaled the out as I stepped forward in front of the plate. Nobody heard me. Fans are screaming (they're right ON the fence), Coaches hollering, Parents are shouting, typical bedlam. I stood there in front of the plate and repeated the words and action, but now I couldn't even hear myself. So I stood there with my hands up and waited. As the BR rounded 3B and came home, I made the call again. I can easily see how some could perceive that I waited until he got all the way around to make the call, since nobody was watching me or heard me until he got home (later, one of the OC's said he saw me, but he couldn't hear a word). My partner had heard me somehow and was already heading back to "C". As things quieted down, I called out, "I have an out! Batters out for stepping out of the box on contact! Balls dead, runner go back to 3rd, please!" I was prepared to show the cleat mark as their coach yells at me from their dugout door: "How come you waited until he got home to call that?!" I said, "I didn't. I made the call as soon as saw where his foot landed, but..." He cut me off with: "Well, if you (uh-oh... ejection sequence start) hadn't been doggin' it maybe you..." I cut HIM off with: "YOU'RE GONE!" He left without a word. Later I saw him peeking from behind the LF foul pole, but the Complex Supervisor took care of that. Side note: Not only did that foot cost him a HR, it was his son and he had been coached to move way up in the box because of the short pitcher. Coach called my Chief the next morning and said he deserved it and he apologized. We'll see how it all plays out when I have his team next week, but to me, it'll be new game and water under the bridge. If he wants to quietly discuss what I saw and what was going on, we'll see... I don't think there's much more I could've done short of chasing the BR or something. The stands are right on top of the fences and they were packed with both sides were at full volume. Of course, the only one who's watching the PU are other umpires...

Our city 13U "Competitive" league. One of the best leagues around with quite a few good players and teams. The local HS's form teams, based on their feeder middle schools, and we draw other teams from towns within a 50 mile radius. It's not unusual to see a few of the local HS coaches in the stands scouting potential transfers. Top of the 1st and I'm BU. R1, R2, batter hits a basic single to CF. Ball comes in to F4 in short center and as he trots in to the infield, he looks at me, raises his hands and asks for time. I said, "For what?" He said, "So I can throw the ball to the pitcher." I told him that he wasn't getting time for that and to throw the ball. (There's a bit of a backstory to this, but I'll get to that in a moment.) He gave a strange look, but tossed it to the pitcher. I heard zero from the dugout. They tried it one other time that inning. At the half-inning, the expected... VC: "How come you won't give my players time out? BU: "For what?" VC: "So they can throw the ball to the pitcher." BU: "So they can what?" (BU fun time commence!) VC: "So they can throw the ball back to the pitcher." BU: "I'm not calling time for that coach." VC: "But the runners are stopped and we don't want them to take off." BU: "So you want me to give the defense an advantage?" VC: "A what? How is that an advantage? You're giving the offense an advantage!" BU: "So let me get this straight (I'm actually kind of enjoying this), you expect me to grant time after every hit so the runners won't run and you can return the ball to the pitcher without worrying about a bad throw? VC: "Right!" BU: "Ain't gonna happen." VC: "But we always do! I coach my Varsity to do that in their games and they get it!" BU: "Not in MY Varsity games, coach. And honestly, I haven't seen that done anywhere except Coach Pitch." (OK, fun time ending... ejection sequence commence) VC: "But other umpires do! How come you won't?!!" BU: "They can ask, but it's Umpire's discretion whether or not to grant time in any situation, coach. My discretion says, ain't gonna' happen. They gotta' be able to throw the ball back." VC: "HOW COME? I just want to know why..." BU: "I'm done talking about it, coach." I turned and walked. He didn't follow. Ejection sequence aborted. No probs for the rest of the game. The infielders ran it in and made the short throws to the pitcher. Every now and then, in other games a fielder will ask, I say no, and that's it. I guess if you can get it, go for it. The backstory: we have a couple of umpires who used to grant time for this. One wasn't paying attention one night and called it as a runner was past third and halfway home. The appropriate chaos ensued. He doesn't do that anymore. I have a couple of other "Time!" fiascos that I'll post later... Maybe you have one? So I guess after all of that, "Hey Blue! Time! I need to throw the ball to the pitcher, and just in case I make a bad throw I don't want the runners to run!!" Do you give it? With me, Ain't gonna' happen!

Interesting. Before and/or as he comes to the stop, not a balk. After the stop, I'd have to see it but he's definitely taking a big chance on a balk. Visualizing it, I'd say balk. If I was a runner and I saw the shoulders go up, especially if he did it quickly, I'd definitely feel "deceived". But if it was super-slow like he was taking a breath and his shoulders didn't go up and down very far, maybe not. Again, I'd have to see it.