Second Toss Ever

[moblue]

Okay, so I've handed down more warnings than I can count since I've started umpiring, but before tonight I had only made one ejection, which was last season.

9-10 yr. old Cal Ripken

We had 2 runners on base. I don't remember where. Ball hit to the outfield brings in the 2 runners. The second runner missed third, and almost missed home. The defense appealed (improperly) that he had missed home. Since there was nothing to lose by answering the question I said that he had touched at home, but there was a process to appeal by. I said that trying to "be nice." I had no idea they were about to make a second appeal. So the second appeal went down correctly, and the second runner was called out by the base umpire for missing third.

Before chaos reigned on the field I called time and ran out to my partner (a parent) and asked what he had. He explained what he had called. I went to tell the books what was up and got stopped by the OC at 3rd. He complained that the appeal was invalid because the pitcher had never stepped on the mound, then stepped off to appeal. I told him he didn't have to do that. He tried to throw the "I've got my license too" at me, but I didn't back down. In the meantime, another OC coach, the DC head coach, and the DC asst. coach walk over to me and we are discussing the call. I continued to back up my partner, but had to defend myself at one point when I was told I was supposed to be watching third.

No one got over the top, and the discussion stayed decently civilized, so I was okay with how things were going since it came down to questioning a rule application (the appeal process) rather than an actual judgement call. The OC that had walked over had had enough apparently and said "This is f*&&^% pathetic." He instantly had my attention. I held back a loud, show-him-up ej mechanic and just told him "You're outta here" very calmly and kept my arm in front of me as I signaled. He made some remark to the effect of "okay" or "whatever" and left. What I didn't know was where to. I found out from my partner after the game he had sat in the bleachers, within probably 50 ft. of me. I never heard a word from him, so at least he stayed quiet.

In retrospect telling the DC there was an appeal process probably was a bad idea, but I didn't want to look arrogant by ruling "invalid appeal" when the runner had touched anyway. I thought there was no reason to be proper and get someone all over me. I might have had to explain the correct procedure anyways. There is a chance though that the parent working the game would have honored the appeal at 3rd after a second or third try if they were wrong, so it's also possible I avoided a 3-ring circus. Thoughts anyone?

[mstaylor]

How did they improperly appeal? With 9/10s I will be more inclined to help the process. I don't who mentioned that you should have been watching the touch at third was right.

[moblue]

How did they improperly appeal? With 9/10s I will be more inclined to help the process. I don't who mentioned that you should have been watching the touch at third was right.

One of the DCs started yelling at me asking if the runner had touched home. I'm not sure what you mean about watching the touch at third (if I was right or the coach was). I was watching the lead runner who was on his way home.

[batterup]

As the PU, you have the touches at third AND home.

[mstaylor]

At that young an age the players don't know and the coaches don't know much more. I would tell them if would like to appeal that would be an option if not settle down.

[moblue]

As the PU, you have the touches at third AND home.

So what is the best way to set up to see the touch at third and still set up for a possible play at the plate?

[therefump]

First, it really never pays to be "nice". Actually, it pays poorly to be nice.

Without commenting on procedurally on what you did I think your ejection was excellent (esp. in earshot of any kids) and don't worry that he sat in the stands since you didn't hear a peep out of him. I suspect he really didn't want to be there anyway. In other words, he got himself ejected.

There's a good saying about regretting those we didn't eject and should have.

Good job.!:WTF

[Jboval]

Am I missing something here? They appealed twice on the same runner? I have read somewhere that this is not allowed, and will have to do a little reading to come up with the final determination on this, but maybe someone else knows. It also may have to do with what the Defense did incorrectly in their appeal? I am pretty sure that the situation was listed in the OBR Interpretations for 2009.

[moblue]

The defense can appeal on the same runner twice, just not twice at the same base. The defense appealed the runner missed home, but were wrong, so they then appealed that he missed third, and were right. The way I understand the comments after rule 7.10, this is legal.

[Jboval]

My reference was in relation to OBR. According to Major League Baseball Umpire Manual - Procedures and Interpretations: Section 5.4 (9) - After a failed attempted play on any player, no other appeal will be allowed on any player, at any base.

However, I pulled my LL book, and as you pointed out, in LL rules, I agree that your interpretation appears to be correct. Just out of curiosity, how did they appeal 'improperly' the first time?

[noumpere]

My reference was in relation to OBR. According to Major League Baseball Umpire Manual - Procedures and Interpretations: Section 5.4 (9) - After a failed attempted play on any player, no other appeal will be allowed on any player, at any base.

Right, but for the purposes of multiple appeals, an appeal is not a play.

[Jboval]

That's why I asked how the first appeal was 'improper'.

[moblue]

For the improper appeal, one of the DCs kept yelling to me asking if the runner had touched home plate.

[BrianC14]

So what is the best way to set up to see the touch at third and still set up for a possible play at the plate?

Stay at the point of the plate, or slightly towards 3B line extended; this positioning makes it easier to see the touch of home and third, should they be happening at about the same time.