Situation of a runner coming home

[digo21]

Hi all,

I am new to these forums, but I am an umpire looking for an answer to a play I had a week ago. Ok heres the situation. A ball is hit to the outfield a runner comes running home. The outfielder makes a bad throw, the catcher comes running up the baseline and both the catcher and runner make contact. Keep in mind the catcher was trying to field a thrown ball. I put my hand out to make an obstruction call but the runner made it home anyway. The opposing coach disputed saying the fielder has a right to the ball. I said not true only to a batted ball. After some time of looking into the subject it seems it should have been no call because of incidental contact. What is the right call here?

[Mr Umpire]

This is not an incidental contact play. The catcher was in the base path without the ball. He obstructed the runner and the runner is awarded HP. Incidental contact usually happens at 1B where the throw carries the first baseman into the path of the runner. But, the 1B will have the ball or is just about to catch it as he and the runner collide. And, the collision could not be avoided. In your sitch, the catcher could have gone after the ball in front of or behind the runner. He did not have to go straight up the base line.

Also, this sounds like a Type A OBS which makes the play dead immediately. How close was the ball for this to be considered a play on the runner? You made the right call of OBS(it sounds like). Only, it may have been a Type A OBS but that is a HTBT situation.

You made the right call. The coach was just looking to get an out instead of letting a run score.

[Umpire in Chief]

Welcome Digo21 and great Reply Mr Umpire

[noumpere]

Hi all,

I am new to these forums, but I am an umpire looking for an answer to a play I had a week ago. Ok heres the situation. A ball is hit to the outfield a runner comes running home. The outfielder makes a bad throw, the catcher comes running up the baseline and both the catcher and runner make contact. Keep in mind the catcher was trying to field a thrown ball. I put my hand out to make an obstruction call but the runner made it home anyway. The opposing coach disputed saying the fielder has a right to the ball. I said not true only to a batted ball. After some time of looking into the subject it seems it should have been no call because of incidental contact. What is the right call here?

What rules codes were you using? How far away from F2 was the ball?

This could be obstruction, with either a delayed or an immediate dead ball, or a "train-wreck."

[mstaylor]

It does depend on ruleset.

OBR:

The fielder may enter the basepath if he is in the act of fielding the throw. LL narrows that down and says he can't be there without the ball period. If you are doing LL, kill the ball and award the plate.

Fed:

Here it is obstruction but a delayed dead ball. Also if there is contact, MC trumps obstruction. There can be contact and be nothing but if the runner does something malicious he is out and ejected.

[therefump]

Hello, Digo21. It's a great site with some great people who know the rules.

Mr. Umpire was exactly right.

Roy

[digo21]

Sorry I should have mentioned that the league I was doing at the time uses MLB. Its only my second year and every league uses a different rule set (ex some PIAA some MLB) The catcher ran up the baseline and had just caught the ball and was turning to make the tag.

[Mr Umpire]

Sorry I should have mentioned that the league I was doing at the time uses MLB. Its only my second year and every league uses a different rule set (ex some PIAA some MLB) The catcher ran up the baseline and had just caught the ball and was turning to make the tag.

If the catcher has the ball before any contact or before he has caused the runner to alter his running, then I have nothing. Not even OBS. If the runner slowed down or anything different before the catcher is in the act of catching the ball, then it is OBS.

In the OP, it sounded like the catcher was not close to catching the ball. Now, you say he had it before contact. So, now, I have nothing. The catcher had the ball(or is in the act of fielding it and this is always judgment b/c the ball has to be in the immediate vicinity of the fielder) before he obstructed the runner in any way. As long as the catcher and runner do nothing to get themselves called for MC(if the league does not allow MC), then I have a normal play of the game and whatever happens, happens.

In the OP, I have OBS. In the revised, I have a normal play as long as the catcher did not cause the runner to alter his running behavior or path before he is in the act of fielding the ball.

[digo21]

If the catcher has the ball before any contact or before he has caused the runner to alter his running, then I have nothing. Not even OBS. If the runner slowed down or anything different before the catcher is in the act of catching the ball, then it is OBS.

In the OP, it sounded like the catcher was not close to catching the ball. Now, you say he had it before contact. So, now, I have nothing. The catcher had the ball(or is in the act of fielding it and this is always judgment b/c the ball has to be in the immediate vicinity of the fielder) before he obstructed the runner in any way. As long as the catcher and runner do nothing to get themselves called for MC(if the league does not allow MC), then I have a normal play of the game and whatever happens, happens.

In the OP, I have OBS. In the revised, I have a normal play as long as the catcher did not cause the runner to alter his running behavior or path before he is in the act of fielding the ball.

OK thanks that clears a lot up. I am only in my second year so sometimes this stuff gets crazy. One last thing this rule includes all basemen correct? As in if they have the ball they can be waiting within the baseline.

[NFUA_44]

Digo,

Yes it includes any defensive player, and as long as they have possesion of the ball they can be anywhere they choose in order to make the play. Welcome aboard, this board will help you immensley as a training tool, and the folks here are genuinely interested in helping each other to be better Umpires.

[Mr Umpire]

OK thanks that clears a lot up. I am only in my second year so sometimes this stuff gets crazy. One last thing this rule includes all basemen correct? As in if they have the ball they can be waiting within the baseline.

Just remember. Make your call on the field. If you are not sure of the rule, ask your partner if questioned. Then, make sure you got it right. Look it up in the rules, any manuals you have, and other umpires(especially here b/c you know UIC recruits all the best for his Umpire-empire.com site). Be sure to tell all your friends.:HD: