USA Softball Force Play Question: R3 Tagged on 3B Before R2 Reaches Base

[coffee]

I'm looking for a USA Softball ruling and citation.

Bases loaded, 0 outs.

The batter hit a hard line drive directly at F5. F5 got a glove on the ball but did not secure the catch. The ball dropped to the ground, so there was no catch.

R3 broke toward home and then retreated to 3rd base. R3 was standing on and touching 3rd base.

R2 had advanced off 2nd but was only about halfway to 3rd.

F5 secured the ball and first tagged R3 while R3 was standing on 3rd base. F5 then touched 3rd base before R2 arrived. F5 then threw toward 2nd for another out, but the throw was overthrown.

My ruling was:
- The tag on R3 did not retire R3 because R3 was touching 3rd base.
- R2 was out on the force when F5 touched 3rd before R2 arrived.
- R3 remained safe at 3rd.

After reviewing Rule 8-3(B), Rule 8-3(E), Rule 8-7(C), and RS #1(J), I am trying to determine whether a runner forced to advance loses protection while standing on the base originally occupied, or whether that runner remains entitled to the base until the trailing runner acquires it.

Under USA Softball, is R3 out when tagged while standing on 3rd, or is only R2 out when F5 touches 3rd before R2 arrives?

What rule citation or case play governs this situation?

[Velho]

EDITED TO AVOID CONFUSION FOR MORE POOR READING SKILLS

R3 lost the right to 3B and was tagged before reaching their base of home plate. That's an OUT.

Cites from USA Rulebook https://www.usasoftball.com/official-rulebook/

Rule 1 Definitions: FORCE OUT: An out which may be made only when a runner loses the right to the base that the runner is occupying because the batter becomes a batter-runner, and before the batter-runner or a trailing runner has been put out.

Section 7 THE RUNNER IS OUT (c) When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base.

R2 was out when F5 touched 3B before R2 reached it. OUT

Almost a triple play.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Velho

[jimurrayalterego]

2 minutes ago, Velho said:

You got it perfect. Cites from USA Rulebook https://www.usasoftball.com/official-rulebook/

Rule 1 Definitions: FORCE OUT: An out which may be made only when a runner loses the right to the base that the runner is occupying because the batter becomes a batter-runner, and before the batter-runner or a trailing runner has been put out.

Section 7 THE RUNNER IS OUT (c) When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base.

 

R3 lost the right to 3B and was tagged before reaching their base of home plate.

 

[FYI - Whoever is asking you for a cite is either very naive to baseball/softball or is just trying to be a jerk]

I think you misread, "My ruling was:
- The tag on R3 did not retire R3 because R3 was touching 3rd base."

R3 was tagged off of his base which was no longer 3B when force came about.
 

[Velho]

1 hour ago, jimurrayalterego said:

I think you misread, "My ruling was:
- The tag on R3 did not retire R3 because R3 was touching 3rd base."

R3 was tagged off of his base which was no longer 3B when force came about.

I appreciate the kind redirect. I've edited my post entirely. 

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, coffee said:

My ruling was:
- The tag on R3 did not retire R3 because R3 was touching 3rd base.
- R2 was out on the force when F5 touched 3rd before R2 arrived.
- R3 remained safe at 3rd.

As shown by others, this is wrong - the forced runner does indeed lose the prior base as a safe haven unless and until a following runner is put out.

If F5 had touched third base first (retiring R2), then R3 would be safe because he would be entitled to that base.

This is true in all rule sets of baseball and softball.

This is also true in reverse for appeal plays...for a runner who has failed to tag up, their only safe base is the one they need to re-touch.   You can tag him out while standing on any other base (you may just need to make it clear that it's an appeal play)