Hitting the baseball twice with one swing

[LDS]

12 year old boys baseball - USSSA  - Batter swings at a pitch and hits ground ball the 3rd base.  3rd baseman throws him out at first.  I'm the field umpire.  The head coach for the team that just hit the baseball said you could hear the sound of the baseball hitting the bat twice.  I heard the same thing but wasn't sure what happened.  After discussing with the plate umpire, we let the play stand as a ground out to third.  If the bat did contact the baseball twice in one swing while the batter was in the box, what would the proper call be?  Play on, since accidental, foul and dead ball?  I've tried looking up in the rule book but couldn't find a definitive answer.

[The Man in Blue]

8-4-1(d) in NFHS.

I believe USSSA use OBR though, correct?  5.09(a)(8)

Sounds as if you handled it the appropriate way.  You got together, acknowledged that there was a second sound, but if you could not confirm it was the bat and the ball a second time, the call stands.  (It could have been the bat and the turf.)

(Yes, it would have been a foul ball.)

If the kid ended up with an RBI double, coach never would have said a word.  Hear him out, but don't trust him.

[jimurrayalterego]

24 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

8-4-1(d) in NFHS.

I believe USSSA use OBR though, correct?  5.09(a)(8)

Sounds as if you handled it the appropriate way.  You got together, acknowledged that there was a second sound, but if you could not confirm it was the bat and the ball a second time, the call stands.  (It could have been the bat and the turf.)

(Yes, it would have been a foul ball.)

If the kid ended up with an RBI double, coach never would have said a word.  Hear him out, but don't trust him.

I think bat hitting the fair ball twice is an out in OBR. Batted ball hitting the batter or his bat in the box is foul. 

[The Man in Blue]

3 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

I think bat hitting the fair ball twice is an out in OBR. Batted ball hitting the batter or his bat in the box is foul. 

I did not read the OP that way, but yes -- if he released the bat and it hit the ball or if he left the box with the bat, and then it hit the ball again, he would be out.

[LDS]

33 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

I think bat hitting the fair ball twice is an out in OBR. Batted ball hitting the batter or his bat in the box is foul. 

Yes, OBR rules.  The batter might have hit the ball twice on one swing.  The ball did not bounce and he did not let go of bat.  Only the sound where it sounded like the ping of the bat twice.  I asked the tournament director and other umpires after the game and got many answers.  I had them tell me live ball, foul ball and batter is out.  I have this team again tomorrow in bracket play and want to have the correct answer for the coach if he asks.  I also looked online and there were many instances of MLB players doing this and they were given base hits or live balls based on umpires interpretation on whether the double hit was intentional or not.

[MadMax]

18 minutes ago, LDS said:

Yes, OBR rules.  The batter might have hit the ball twice on one swing.  The ball did not bounce and he did not let go of bat.  Only the sound where it sounded like the ping of the bat twice.  I asked the tournament director and other umpires after the game and got many answers.  I had them tell me live ball, foul ball and batter is out.  I have this team again tomorrow in bracket play and want to have the correct answer for the coach if he asks.  I also looked online and there were many instances of MLB players doing this and they were given base hits or live balls based on umpires interpretation on whether the double hit was intentional or not.

Hunter Pence hit the ball with the bat three times in one swing in October of 2012, to great (advantageous for Giants fans, not so much for 🤬 Cardinals fans) effect. Legal, and as you've polled your colleagues, the play stands. The only components that would change that would be actions such as: 

• The batted ball touches the player's body (clothing included) in any way before touching the bat again... 
• The batted ball is intentionally struck at by the batter again (think bunt popped into the air, and then bunted at again)... 
• The batted ball touches the ground, and then touches the bat again (while it's still in the batter's hands)... 
• The batted ball is contacted by the bat after said bat leaves the batter's hands (ruled on intent)... 

But in the same "continuous" swing? Without touching anything else first? Play on. 

There was an instance – televised / recorded – wherein a batter swung, popped the ball up, and his own follow thru (backswing) hits the ball again. I don't remember if it was fair or foul, but I remember the comments claiming it as stupefying. 

Clip Attached: 

 

 

[jimurrayalterego]

40 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Hunter Pence hit the ball with the bat three times in one swing in October of 2012, to great (advantageous for Giants fans, not so much for 🤬 Cardinals fans) effect. Legal, and as you've polled your colleagues, the play stands. The only components that would change that would be actions such as: 

• The batted ball touches the player's body (clothing included) in any way before touching the bat again... 
• The batted ball is intentionally struck at by the batter again (think bunt popped into the air, and then bunted at again)... 
• The batted ball touches the ground, and then touches the bat again (while it's still in the batter's hands)... 
• The batted ball is contacted by the bat after said bat leaves the batter's hands (ruled on intent)... 

But in the same "continuous" swing? Without touching anything else first? Play on. 

There was an instance – televised / recorded – wherein a batter swung, popped the ball up, and his own follow thru (backswing) hits the ball again. I don't remember if it was fair or foul, but I remember the comments claiming it as stupefying. 

Clip Attached: 

 

 

That was legal because of this Comment: "Rule 5.09(a)(8) Comment: If a bat breaks and part of it is in fair territory and is hit by a batted ball or part of it hits a runner or fielder, play shall continue and no interference called. If a batted ball hits part of a broken bat in foul territory, it is a foul ball"

A "double hit" is an out. I can't recall any that were called out because you need slow-mo to see it.

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, LDS said:

Yes, OBR rules.  The batter might have hit the ball twice on one swing.  The ball did not bounce and he did not let go of bat.  Only the sound where it sounded like the ping of the bat twice.  I asked the tournament director and other umpires after the game and got many answers.  I had them tell me live ball, foul ball and batter is out.  I have this team again tomorrow in bracket play and want to have the correct answer for the coach if he asks.  I also looked online and there were many instances of MLB players doing this and they were given base hits or live balls based on umpires interpretation on whether the double hit was intentional or not.

 

Yeah . . . not buying that he hit it twice on one swing with no other contacts occurring.  I'm not saying you didn't hear two contacts, I'm questioning what one of them was.  

Did you check the bat to see if it was a damaged bat?  (Something inside or the joint, if it is a two piece bat, rattling.)

Any chance what you heard was him nipping the catcher?

 

Then again, stranger things have happened.