LL rule on warm-ups

[HokieUmp]

There's one rule in LL that I don't understand, so I'm throwing it out here, looking for the logic of the rule.

I know, and it's been stated here before, that an adult is NOT allowed to go out between innings and warm-up the pitcher. That's what I _know_.

What I don't know is: why? Little help, anyone?

[sdix00]

Those in the know have told me that this is an effort to involve a player from the bench. Each time a coach warms up a pitcher, there is a kid sitting on pine.

Those who are just guessing have told me it is for insurance and liability reasons. But this is also what the auto parts store tells you when they say you can't use their bathroom. So they are probably just making it up.

The reason why does not seem to be published anywhere. But folks I trust explain that it is a "for the kids" rule.

[ukce1861]

Those in the know have told me that this is an effort to involve a player from the bench. Each time a coach warms up a pitcher, there is a kid sitting on pine.

That's even dumber than the liability/insurance reason... I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying, if that's the case, it's an even dumber rule than I thought.:rolleyes:

[HokieUmp]

Those in the know have told me that this is an effort to involve a player from the bench. Each time a coach warms up a pitcher, there is a kid sitting on pine.

That would fine, if that kid riding the bench would get the bleep up and warm up the pitcher. But what few LL games I do, it doesn't seem to happen, so the pitcher ends up getting maybe one pitch and a bunch of throws to an infielder, otherwise the game takes forever.

[ukce1861]

That would fine, if that kid riding the bench would get the bleep up and warm up the pitcher. But what few LL games I do, it doesn't seem to happen, so the pitcher ends up getting maybe one pitch and a bunch of throws to an infielder, otherwise the game takes forever.

+1

That kid riding the bench usually seems more than happy to stay there on the bench - hence his bench-riding to begin with...

[sdix00]

Maybe. But I think it says more about the coach.

1 minute between innings. period. I don't care what you do with your 1 minute. After 45 seconds it's "balls in, catcher"

[Rich Ives]

That would fine, if that kid riding the bench would get the bleep up and warm up the pitcher. But what few LL games I do, it doesn't seem to happen,

That's the coach's fault for not having him knowing it's his job and making sure he's ready to warm up the pitcher.

Except for the time an umpire told me "only the catcher can warm up the pitcher" when I sent the sub out.

[Rich Ives]

There's one rule in LL that I don't understand, so I'm throwing it out here, looking for the logic of the rule.

I know, and it's been stated here before, that an adult is NOT allowed to go out between innings and warm-up the pitcher. That's what I _know_.

What I don't know is: why? Little help, anyone?

It's about keeping the kids doing something and learning at the same time.

It wasn't all that long ago that kids had to do the base coaching also. Now you can put adults out with the coindition that here has to be one in the dugout. In the tournaemt when you have only two adult coaches it means having one kid coaching bases.

And no, the kids are NOT too stupid to coach bases. That's just another adult superiority myth. In fact, with some daddy-coaches they kids know more about it than the adults.

[mstaylor]

Rich beat me to it. LL is all about kid participation. Once upon a time coaches weren't allowed to make mound visits, coach bases or warm up pitchers. The only part left is the warm up restriction. As an aside I have never seen a kid get hurt warming pitchers but I have seen several injuries to adults, including my Dad. I saw one dad, in another system, get hit in the face and he broke his occipital bone twice. The participation issue is why LL limits the number of coaches in allstars in relation to the number on the roster.

[1dumbquestion]

There's one rule in LL that I don't understand, so I'm throwing it out here, looking for the logic of the rule.

I know, and it's been stated here before, that an adult is NOT allowed to go out between innings and warm-up the pitcher. That's what I _know_.

What I don't know is: why? Little help, anyone?

It's about keeping the kids doing something and learning at the same time.

It wasn't all that long ago that kids had to do the base coaching also. Now you can put adults out with the coindition that here has to be one in the dugout. In the tournaemt when you have only two adult coaches it means having one kid coaching bases.

And no, the kids are NOT too stupid to coach bases. That's just another adult superiority myth. In fact, with some daddy-coaches they kids know more about it than the adults.

not an issue anymore, they removed the clause of only a manager and one coach if 12 or less on the roster, now you can roster 9+ and have a manager and 2 coaches. 1

[Rich Ives]

There's one rule in LL that I don't understand, so I'm throwing it out here, looking for the logic of the rule.

I know, and it's been stated here before, that an adult is NOT allowed to go out between innings and warm-up the pitcher. That's what I _know_.

What I don't know is: why? Little help, anyone?

It's about keeping the kids doing something and learning at the same time.

It wasn't all that long ago that kids had to do the base coaching also. Now you can put adults out with the coindition that here has to be one in the dugout. In the tournaemt when you have only two adult coaches it means having one kid coaching bases.

And no, the kids are NOT too stupid to coach bases. That's just another adult superiority myth. In fact, with some daddy-coaches they kids know more about it than the adults.

not an issue anymore, they removed the clause of only a manager and one coach if 12 or less on the roster, now you can roster 9+ and have a manager and 2 coaches. 1

Yes I know - but they changed the MPR requirement based on roster size.

FYI the Japanese LLWS teams the past few years have carried 14 players and 3 adults yet still sent a kid out to coach 1B.

[yawetag]

It wasn't all that long ago that kids had to do the base coaching also. Now you can put adults out with the coindition that here has to be one in the dugout. In the tournaemt when you have only two adult coaches it means having one kid coaching bases.

And no, the kids are NOT too stupid to coach bases. That's just another adult superiority myth. In fact, with some daddy-coaches they kids know more about it than the adults.

As a kid, I loved being the base coach.

[carolinablue]

I almost had to toss a coach because of the warm-up rule in an inter-league JR. game just the other day. He was mad because his team was playing poorly and then he changed pitchers and came out to warm him up and I told him it had to be a player. He started ranting about how he's done it everywhere else he's been and on and on. I tried to explain it was a LL rule and I had no choice but he was just venting. I was just about to toss him when his AC came out and got him back to the dug-out. I never heard another word from him the rest of the game and that's a good thing because it would have only took one more.

[carolinablue]

I'm not a LL hater, in fact there's a lot of things about it I like but I have always thought that if they are really serious about increasing participation then they should change the minimum playing time from 2 and 1 to 3 and 1. It can be done, I used to do it when I coached and it hurt me on the field because the other coaches wouldn't, but I didn't care.

[HokieUmp]

And no, the kids are NOT too stupid to coach bases. That's just another adult superiority myth. In fact, with some daddy-coaches they kids know more about it than the adults.

Never said the kids WERE too stupid.

Besides, how hard can it be? 1B Coach - "turn left" or "stay here." And he doesn't have to watch for pickoffs. 3B Coach - "go" (at least, until the outfielders are proven to be able to make a throw, or the other team can make a relay)

Mostly, what I mean is, at that level of play, there are fewer things for a base-coach to deal with, and the kids can handle that just fine. And, from the kids I've seen in the leagues we cover, they wouldn't dream of barking from the coaches box. Not that the adults do it THAT much themselves, but the kids aren't inclined to act that way at all.

[Rich Ives]

Never said the kids WERE too stupid.

.

Never said you did. But a LOT of coaches think so which the LL congress voted to allow adult base coaches.

[HokieUmp]

Never said you did. But a LOT of coaches think so which the LL congress voted to allow adult base coaches.

Hmmm. I wonder if that stems from wanting to win so bad, or what.

I mean, I've seen plenty of base running issues/mistakes, even when the base coach IS an adult, so I'm not entirely sure what the difference would be having a player in the coaches box.

[Don in Washington]

Its not just between innings. LL rule 3.09 says ..."Managers or coaches must not warm a pitcher at home plate or in the bull pen or elsewhere at any time"...

As a LL District Safety Officer we have been instructed to interupt this to also include practices. And to expand the interuption further, since any player can pitch, then all players are pitchers, therefore adults can not warmup (play catch) with any player at any time. The LGB specifically addresses what adults are allowed to do. Coach and manage, be a base coach, observe in the bull pen and hit balls during pregame in-field.

My DA and myself went to my local league yesterday and saw adults doing both. (Playing catch and warming up pitchers in the bull pen.) We've already sent e-mails and made phone calls to correct this.

Now those are the directives handed to us to enforce. So, my guess is that LL wants the kids to participate as much as possible. And in reality LL, is for the kids to play and not the adults. I haven't been to MLB practices but at the games, I have yet to see the coaches/managers warming up the pitchers. Maybe that's not a good parallel. But LL was created as a scaled down version of the Big League.

The last line in the purpose of LL (in talking about the LL program)..."It establishes the values of teamwork, sportsmanship and fair play". I like the policy. It shows kids that small things can be done to contribute to the team. That's an attitude I see too little of, as kids grow up and enter the job market.

Don

[Nazrat]

Its not just between innings. LL rule 3.09 says ..."Managers or coaches must not warm a pitcher at home plate or in the bull pen or elsewhere at any time"...

As a LL District Safety Officer we have been instructed to interupt this to also include practices. And to expand the interuption further, since any player can pitch, then all players are pitchers, therefore adults can not warmup (play catch) with any player at any time. The LGB specifically addresses what adults are allowed to do. Coach and manage, be a base coach, observe in the bull pen and hit balls during pregame in-field.

My DA and myself went to my local league yesterday and saw adults doing both. (Playing catch and warming up pitchers in the bull pen.) We've already sent e-mails and made phone calls to correct this.

Now those are the directives handed to us to enforce. So, my guess is that LL wants the kids to participate as much as possible. And in reality LL, is for the kids to play and not the adults. I haven't been to MLB practices but at the games, I have yet to see the coaches/managers warming up the pitchers. Maybe that's not a good parallel. But LL was created as a scaled down version of the Big League.

The last line in the purpose of LL (in talking about the LL program)..."It establishes the values of teamwork, sportsmanship and fair play". I like the policy. It shows kids that small things can be done to contribute to the team. That's an attitude I see too little of, as kids grow up and enter the job market.

Don

Don, I would be interested to know where you believe the rules jurisdiction stops. Since I am a LL president and an adult, can I not throw with my sons in our yard? Is it location so that I cannot throw on a LL field during practice?

Since Rule 3 is entitled "Game Preliminaries", I would argue that the rule is limited to games and pre-game. Rule 3.09 even starts with adults behavior during the game.

I would be interested to know who decided that this rule applied to practices also. That message has not been given in my area and would be challenged if it was attempted.

[yawetag]

Don, I would be interested to know where you believe the rules jurisdiction stops. Since I am a LL president and an adult, can I not throw with my sons in our yard? Is it location so that I cannot throw on a LL field during practice?

Exactly my thought when reading his post.

This is me thinking too much, but is it more of a safety issue? Adults throw much harder than kids do, so it's possible an adult will inadvertently throw back to the pitcher too hard, causing him to miss it and get hit.

[Rich Ives]

And to expand the interuption further, since any player can pitch, then all players are pitchers, therefore adults can not warmup (play catch) with any player at any time.

This is a real stretch that I think you will find is NOT supported by LL.

[mtnump]

My understanding is along the lines of the "participation" of the kids. Get the kids involved in the game. I coach in the minors and we always have a player warm up the pitcher on the field or in the bullpen.

I would also suggest that being eligible to pitch and being a pitcher are not the same thing. I wouldn't designate an eligible pitcher as a pitcher until he is in the bullpen or on the mound. In practice, I play catch with the kids all the time. Sometimes it is with the kid that needs to work on a certain fundamental, but a lot of times it is just "because" I like to play catch with the kids. don't see the rule reaching that far.

As an umpire in the older divisions I get coaches trying to warm their pitchers up all the time and some are not too happy when I inform them that they can't. After it is explained to them, it seems to make sense to MOST of them. There always has to be a couple of rotten apples in the basket!

[1dumbquestion]

Its not just between innings. LL rule 3.09 says ..."Managers or coaches must not warm a pitcher at home plate or in the bull pen or elsewhere at any time"...

As a LL District Safety Officer we have been instructed to interupt this to also include practices. And to expand the interuption further, since any player can pitch, then all players are pitchers, therefore adults can not warmup (play catch) with any player at any time. The LGB specifically addresses what adults are allowed to do. Coach and manage, be a base coach, observe in the bull pen and hit balls during pregame in-field.

My DA and myself went to my local league yesterday and saw adults doing both. (Playing catch and warming up pitchers in the bull pen.) We've already sent e-mails and made phone calls to correct this.

Now those are the directives handed to us to enforce. So, my guess is that LL wants the kids to participate as much as possible. And in reality LL, is for the kids to play and not the adults. I haven't been to MLB practices but at the games, I have yet to see the coaches/managers warming up the pitchers. Maybe that's not a good parallel. But LL was created as a scaled down version of the Big League.

The last line in the purpose of LL (in talking about the LL program)..."It establishes the values of teamwork, sportsmanship and fair play". I like the policy. It shows kids that small things can be done to contribute to the team. That's an attitude I see too little of, as kids grow up and enter the job market.

Don

Don, I would be interested to know where you believe the rules jurisdiction stops. Since I am a LL president and an adult, can I not throw with my sons in our yard? Is it location so that I cannot throw on a LL field during practice?

Since Rule 3 is entitled "Game Preliminaries", I would argue that the rule is limited to games and pre-game. Rule 3.09 even starts with adults behavior during the game.

I would be interested to know who decided that this rule applied to practices also. That message has not been given in my area and would be challenged if it was attempted.

I'm the UIC for my local league and this interp was sent down by our district. I told them they were crazy if they thought they were going to walk onto my practice field and stop me from throwing a ball to a player. I can accept (barely) the restriction during a game or in the bullpen or even at the game site, but at practice you've got to be sh!ting me! so let's see, I can HIT baseballs at an unprotected shortstop but I can't throw a ball to a geared-up catcher for blocking practice? 1

[sdix00]

Its not just between innings. LL rule 3.09 says ..."Managers or coaches must not warm a pitcher at home plate or in the bull pen or elsewhere at any time"...

As a LL District Safety Officer we have been instructed to interupt this to also include practices. And to expand the interuption further, since any player can pitch, then all players are pitchers, therefore adults can not warmup (play catch) with any player at any time. The LGB specifically addresses what adults are allowed to do. Coach and manage, be a base coach, observe in the bull pen and hit balls during pregame in-field.

My DA and myself went to my local league yesterday and saw adults doing both. (Playing catch and warming up pitchers in the bull pen.) We've already sent e-mails and made phone calls to correct this.

Now those are the directives handed to us to enforce. So, my guess is that LL wants the kids to participate as much as possible. And in reality LL, is for the kids to play and not the adults. I haven't been to MLB practices but at the games, I have yet to see the coaches/managers warming up the pitchers. Maybe that's not a good parallel. But LL was created as a scaled down version of the Big League.

The last line in the purpose of LL (in talking about the LL program)..."It establishes the values of teamwork, sportsmanship and fair play". I like the policy. It shows kids that small things can be done to contribute to the team. That's an attitude I see too little of, as kids grow up and enter the job market.

Don

Don, I would be interested to know where you believe the rules jurisdiction stops. Since I am a LL president and an adult, can I not throw with my sons in our yard? Is it location so that I cannot throw on a LL field during practice?

Since Rule 3 is entitled "Game Preliminaries", I would argue that the rule is limited to games and pre-game. Rule 3.09 even starts with adults behavior during the game.

I would be interested to know who decided that this rule applied to practices also. That message has not been given in my area and would be challenged if it was attempted.

I'm the UIC for my local league and this interp was sent down by our district. I told them they were crazy if they thought they were going to walk onto my practice field and stop me from throwing a ball to a player. I can accept (barely) the restriction during a game or in the bullpen or even at the game site, but at practice you've got to be sh!ting me! so let's see, I can HIT baseballs at an unprotected shortstop but I can't throw a ball to a geared-up catcher for blocking practice? 1

This DA needs to work his way through the LL discussions on the LL facebook page. He will find quite a different stance directly from LL.

[mstaylor]

The only rule I would be interested in being enforced at practice is the catcher wearing his helmet during infield. A properly run practice has all the kids doing something, a game is different. As to a coach playing catch with a player, that is crazy.