Orioles Runner, Awarded 3rd, Called Out at 2nd on Appeal

[Lindsay]

Despite Orioles runner Maverick Handley being awarded third base on a ball out of play, Pittsburgh nonetheless retired him at second for an inning-ending Spring Training double play. How can an umpire call a runner out despite a base award? Article:

With one out and one on (R2 Handley), Orioles batter Robert Neustrom hits a fly ball into foul territory, near the first base dugout. Pirates catcher Jason Delay catches the ball before stepping into the dugout (the second step [step below dugout lip] is considered “into the dugout”). HP Umpire Derek Thomas declares Neustrom out on the catch and calls “Time” to award R2 Handley third base on the catch-and-carry into dead ball territory.

Related Post: Chris Segal's KC Catch & Carry Scores Game Winner (8/30/19).

This is a legal catch pursuant to Official Baseball Rule 5.09(a)(1) Comment: "A fielder may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and if they hold the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in any other out-of-play area."

When the ball is put back into play, Pirates pitcher Kyle Nicolas throws to second baseman Nick Gonzalez, who steps on second base to appeal that R2 Handley failed to retouch second base after catcher Delay’s catch. 2B Umpire and Crew Chief Chad Fairchild affirms the appeal and calls Handley out to end the inning.

The Official Baseball Rules state that a runner must fulfill their base running responsibilities—including base touches [and retouches]—even when they are awarded bases and the ball has become dead…otherwise they may be appealed on and declared out for failing to touch a base.

For reference, OBR 5.06(b)(3) states, "Each runner, other than the batter, may without liability to be put out, advance one base when—A fielder, after catching a fly ball, steps or falls into any out-of-play area" while 5.06(b)(3)(C) Comment states, "If a fielder, after having made a legal catch, should step or fall into any out-of-play area, the ball is dead and each runner shall advance one base, without liability to be put out, from their last legally touched base at the time the fielder entered such out-of-play area."

(Think, for instance, about a home run hit out of the playing field. This is technically a four-base award, but the batter and any runners must touch all bases in order before scoring, even though the ball has become dead and they have been awarded bases.)

Alt Link: Handley, awarded 3rd base on out of play ball, is called out at 2nd on appeal (PIT)

View the full article

[Jimurray]

3 hours ago, Lindsay said:

Despite Orioles runner Maverick Handley being awarded third base on a ball out of play, Pittsburgh nonetheless retired him at second for an inning-ending Spring Training double play. How can an umpire call a runner out despite a base award? Article:

 

With one out and one on (R2 Handley), Orioles batter Robert Neustrom hits a fly ball into foul territory, near the first base dugout. Pirates catcher Jason Delay catches the ball before stepping into the dugout (the second step [step below dugout lip] is considered “into the dugout”). HP Umpire Derek Thomas declares Neustrom out on the catch and calls “Time” to award R2 Handley third base on the catch-and-carry into dead ball territory.

Related Post: Chris Segal's KC Catch & Carry Scores Game Winner (8/30/19).

 

This is a legal catch pursuant to Official Baseball Rule 5.09(a)(1) Comment: "A fielder may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and if they hold the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in any other out-of-play area."

 

When the ball is put back into play, Pirates pitcher Kyle Nicolas throws to second baseman Nick Gonzalez, who steps on second base to appeal that R2 Handley failed to retouch second base after catcher Delay’s catch. 2B Umpire and Crew Chief Chad Fairchild affirms the appeal and calls Handley out to end the inning.

 

The Official Baseball Rules state that a runner must fulfill their base running responsibilities—including base touches [and retouches]—even when they are awarded bases and the ball has become dead…otherwise they may be appealed on and declared out for failing to touch a base.

 

For reference, OBR 5.06(b)(3) states, "Each runner, other than the batter, may without liability to be put out, advance one base when—A fielder, after catching a fly ball, steps or falls into any out-of-play area" while 5.06(b)(3)(C) Comment states, "If a fielder, after having made a legal catch, should step or fall into any out-of-play area, the ball is dead and each runner shall advance one base, without liability to be put out, from their last legally touched base at the time the fielder entered such out-of-play area."

 

(Think, for instance, about a home run hit out of the playing field. This is technically a four-base award, but the batter and any runners must touch all bases in order before scoring, even though the ball has become dead and they have been awarded bases.)

 

Alt Link: Handley, awarded 3rd base on out of play ball, is called out at 2nd on appeal (PIT)

View the full article

He did retouch or was on the base during the fly ball. We don't know if he left the base too soon but U2 seems to think so. But the timing of R2 leaving 2B could be on the first touch of the fly ball which would be legal. Need a better angle which I assume U2 had.

[Jimurray]

15 hours ago, Jimurray said:

He did retouch or was on the base during the fly ball. We don't know if he left the base too soon but U2 seems to think so. But the timing of R2 leaving 2B could be on the first touch of the fly ball which would be legal. Need a better angle which I assume U2 had.

After watching on MLBTV which shows more than the OP clip, I wonder what U2 saw because R2 is tagging the base as the ball comes down, sees some occurrence (catch?, Going into dugout?, Umps signaling dead ball?) that spurs him to start edging toward 3B and then stop to then see an award to 3B. The timing seems to indicate he was on the base at the first touch. U2 was looking thru R2 at the play but possibly wasn't focused on R2's foot touching 2B. Further confirmation of the timing is an instance after R2 left 2B F6 is signaling don't throw, most likely when the catcher had left the dugout with the ball, an indication that R2 was on the base when the catcher caught the fly.

[The Man in Blue]

This is the pop up ad I received:

                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Seriously?  Even the AI advertisement placement services are taking shots at umpires now. 

[umpstu]

2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

After watching on MLBTV which shows more than the OP clip, I wonder what U2 saw because R2 is tagging the base as the ball comes down, sees some occurrence (catch?, Going into dugout?, Umps signaling dead ball?) that spurs him to start edging toward 3B and then stop to then see an award to 3B. The timing seems to indicate he was on the base at the first touch. U2 was looking thru R2 at the play but possibly wasn't focused on R2's foot touching 2B. Further confirmation of the timing is an instance after R2 left 2B F6 is signaling don't throw, most likely when the catcher had left the dugout with the ball, an indication that R2 was on the base when the catcher caught the fly.

Maybe it's because it's spring training, but there is no arguments from the player or coach when he is called out so the call might have been correct.

[Jimurray]

32 minutes ago, umpstu said:

Maybe it's because it's spring training, but there is no arguments from the player or coach when he is called out so the call might have been correct.

They probably thought the same thing as the announcers. Umpires don't kick rules so they now think you have to tag during a dead ball award even if you had a proper live ball retouch.

[umpstu]

10 hours ago, Jimurray said:

After watching on MLBTV which shows more than the OP clip, I wonder what U2 saw because R2 is tagging the base as the ball comes down, sees some occurrence (catch?, Going into dugout?, Umps signaling dead ball?) that spurs him to start edging toward 3B and then stop to then see an award to 3B. The timing seems to indicate he was on the base at the first touch. U2 was looking thru R2 at the play but possibly wasn't focused on R2's foot touching 2B. Further confirmation of the timing is an instance after R2 left 2B F6 is signaling don't throw, most likely when the catcher had left the dugout with the ball, an indication that R2 was on the base when the catcher caught the fly.

Where did you find that clip because I can't find it anywhere, including MLBTV.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, umpstu said:

Where did you find that clip because I can't find it anywhere, including MLBTV.

I believe you can see it on the OP clip. But I saw it on MLBTV either at the end of the 7th or the start of the 8th when the announcers were trying to figure out what happened. Announcers are stupid but maybe they saw R2 on the base at the catch and thus their confusion and postulating about needing to tag up again after a dead ball award.