Softball: Look-back rule, 2 runners on same base

[Guest lookback loophole]

Softball umps, how does the lookback rule, (in HS/Fed, but I think is the same in all codes?), apply if 2 runners occupy the same base? 

The specific situation: Bases Loaded, 0 outs. R1, apparently forgetting that 2nd was occupied, "steals" 2nd base. Neither R2 or R3 initially attempts to steal. When the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher in the circle, both R1 and R2 are standing on 2nd. 

Does the lookback rule apply here at all? 

From a literal interpretation, it would seem that if any runner attempts to leave the base while the pitcher has the ball in the circle, that player would be out. If the pitcher attempts to make a play on the runner, then the lookback rule is off and play continues as normal and the defense can tag R1 standing on 2nd for the out.

But what if neither side "blinks" - the runners both stay at 2nd, and the pitcher holds the ball with no attempt to make a play? 

[Senor Azul]

2019 NFHS Softball Case Book Play 8.3.3 SITUATION B: With R3 on third, R2 on second and R1 on first, R1 legally steals second but R2 does not advance. The pitcher receives the ball in the circle from the catcher and makes no play on any runner. May both runners remain at second? RULING: No. The umpire, after permitting a reasonable amount of time for a play to be made, shall declare the ball dead and call R1 out.

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, Guest lookback loophole said:

Softball umps, how does the lookback rule, (in HS/Fed, but I think is the same in all codes?), apply if 2 runners occupy the same base? 

The specific situation: Bases Loaded, 0 outs. R1, apparently forgetting that 2nd was occupied, "steals" 2nd base. Neither R2 or R3 initially attempts to steal. When the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher in the circle, both R1 and R2 are standing on 2nd. 

Does the lookback rule apply here at all? 

From a literal interpretation, it would seem that if any runner attempts to leave the base while the pitcher has the ball in the circle, that player would be out. If the pitcher attempts to make a play on the runner, then the lookback rule is off and play continues as normal and the defense can tag R1 standing on 2nd for the out.

But what if neither side "blinks" - the runners both stay at 2nd, and the pitcher holds the ball with no attempt to make a play? 

R1 can't legally occupy second base if R2 remains.  Like you said, if they were to tag both runners standing on second R1 would be called out.

So, whether R1 is three feet off first, 59 feet off first, or exactly 60 feet off first, the lookback rule, for all intents and purposes, applies.

I would surmise that if R2 were to step off, and not return to base in a timely manner, then they would be subject to the rule and R1 would get to stay at second.  Either way, someone is getting out.

 

[The Man in Blue]

23 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

2019 NFHS Softball Case Book Play 8.3.3 SITUATION B: With R3 on third, R2 on second and R1 on first, R1 legally steals second but R2 does not advance. The pitcher receives the ball in the circle from the catcher and makes no play on any runner. May both runners remain at second? RULING: No. The umpire, after permitting a reasonable amount of time for a play to be made, shall declare the ball dead and call R1 out.

Under the look-back rule (NFHS)

ART. 3 . . . Once the runner stops at a base for any reason, she will be declared out if she leaves the base.

This is essentially an uncorrectable error.  The rule does not say it has to be a legally acquired base.

[Senor Azul]

I don’t think the look-back rule is the applicable rule in this scenario. Why?—because the FED doesn’t seem to think of it in that way. This case play, 8.3.3B, appears in a section with the following heading—

TWO RUNNERS OCCUPYING THE SAME BASE

In addition, there are three other case plays (A, C and D) in the same section and none of the four total case plays even mentions the look-back rule. Here’s what I think is the applicable rule--

2020 NFHS Softball rule 8

SECTION 3 TOUCHING BASES IN LEGAL ORDER

ART. 7 . . . Two runners may not legally occupy the same base simultaneously.

EFFECT: The runner who first legally occupied the base shall be entitled to it, unless forced to advance. The other runner may be put out by being touched with the ball.