Correcting a Missed Base

[MonroeUmp]

OBR, no runners, no outs. Batter hits a deep gapper with an inside the park home run, but misses third base. As the ball is being returned to the infield, I (base umpire) hear the defense chattering about the missed base. The manager, ignorantly, calls for time, Plate umpire grants time,  and then the manager tells me that the runner missed third base. Right. But as I'm explaining to him that he needs a live ball to make a proper appeal, the batter touches home and races back to third base and is standing there when the ball is put back into play. The defense the properly appeals at 3rd base.

What do you have? 

It seems to me that he stays on third because the defense, in calling time, spoiled his opportunity to correct his miss. 

If he's out on appeal, what should the runner have done? Waited near home for the live ball and then raced back to third?

Any other thoughts on this? Don't grant time in this scenario?

 

[maven]

Under OBR, once the BR has scored and the ball becomes dead, he may not legally return to 3B to correct his miss. He can still actually do that, but it wouldn't "count," and the umpire should grant a properly conducted appeal of the missed base, even with the BR standing on it.

Whether the PU should have granted time depends on whether action was "relaxed": if the BR were actively in process of returning to 3B, then time should not be granted until all runners have completed their base-running responsibilities.

If the BR started back to 3B only after hearing the coach try to appeal, then I have no problem with granting time. If the offense complains, perhaps the answer is not to make base-running errors.

[noumpere]

3 hours ago, Vumpire said:

Any other thoughts on this? Don't grant time in this scenario?

 

That's the answer -- IF BR has started to return.  If he hasn't, then it's too late, and he should have touched third when he went past it.

[MonroeUmp]

Here's an interesting comment from the MLBUM: "When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left too soon after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base."

That would seem to support what Maven is saying. However, I'm concerned that what they intended to write was ... "after he has advanced to and touched a base *after the point in time the ball became dead..." * 

Example: R1 rounds second and is on way to third base when the right fielder makes a surprise shoestring catch. F9 throws to first base for the retouch appeal but the ball bounces into the dugout. At the moment the ball rolls in, the umpire calls Time and awards the runner home plate (two bases TOT). However, during the dead ball, the runner is allowed, if I'm not mistaken to trace his steps back to first base by first touching second. This touching of second is what seems to contradict the comment I quoted above from the MLBUM.

Maven's remarks would also seem to support the idea that the Defense in this situation would be wise to ask for Time, killing any chance the runner might have of correcting his error in live action before he enters the dugout. Once the ball is dead, his opportunity to correct would seem to be gone.

[maven]

12 hours ago, Vumpire said:

Maven's remarks would also seem to support the idea that the Defense in this situation would be wise to ask for Time, killing any chance the runner might have of correcting his error in live action before he enters the dugout. Once the ball is dead, his opportunity to correct would seem to be gone.

Tactically, that's a poor choice. Leave it live, communicate to the fielders that the base has been missed, and throw it to 3B to appeal. Ordinarily, a throw to 3B will be faster than a runner trying to retouch the plate and get back to 3B.

Of course, if the world didn't think that appeals HAVE to run through F1 taking the rubber and stepping off....

[Replacematt]

13 hours ago, Vumpire said:

Here's an interesting comment from the MLBUM: "When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left too soon after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base."

That would seem to support what Maven is saying. However, I'm concerned that what they intended to write was ... "after he has advanced to and touched a base *after the point in time the ball became dead..." * 

Example: R1 rounds second and is on way to third base when the right fielder makes a surprise shoestring catch. F9 throws to first base for the retouch appeal but the ball bounces into the dugout. At the moment the ball rolls in, the umpire calls Time and awards the runner home plate (two bases TOT). However, during the dead ball, the runner is allowed, if I'm not mistaken to trace his steps back to first base by first touching second. This touching of second is what seems to contradict the comment I quoted above from the MLBUM.

Maven's remarks would also seem to support the idea that the Defense in this situation would be wise to ask for Time, killing any chance the runner might have of correcting his error in live action before he enters the dugout. Once the ball is dead, his opportunity to correct would seem to be gone.

That is what they intended to write, and I think it's even clarified in the MLBUM--look a little deeper.

[Rich Ives]

20 hours ago, maven said:

Under OBR, once the BR has scored and the ball becomes dead, he may not legally return to 3B to correct his miss. He can still actually do that, but it wouldn't "count," and the umpire should grant a properly conducted appeal of the missed base, even with the BR standing on it. If he's standing there waiting to returrn can he return after you make the ball live again

Whether the PU should have granted time depends on whether action was "relaxed": if the BR were actively in process of returning to 3B, then time should not be granted until all runners have completed their base-running responsibilities. How will you fix it if time was called?

If the BR started back to 3B only after hearing the coach try to appeal, then I have no problem with granting time. If the ball's still live you'll lose that protest. If the offense complains, perhaps the answer is not to make base-running errors.

Points requiring further analysis.

[beerguy55]

On 3/30/2019 at 6:32 PM, Vumpire said:

Maven's remarks would also seem to support the idea that the Defense in this situation would be wise to ask for Time, killing any chance the runner might have of correcting his error in live action before he enters the dugout. Once the ball is dead, his opportunity to correct would seem to be gone.

No, always better to complete the appeal during the action - keep it live and just walk over and touch the base.   If the runner does notice and start running back a toss over to the base is going to be faster than the runner.