MLB Ejection 087 - Hunter Wendelstedt (2; Francoeur)

[Lindsay]

1B Umpire Hunter Wendelstedt ejected Braves LF Jeff Francoeur for arguing a Replay Review (out) decision that affirmed Wendelstedt's out call in the bottom of the 9th inning of the Indians-Braves game. With one out and none on, Braves batter Ender Inciarte hit a 0-1 knuckle curve from Indians...

[[ This is a content summary only. Visit my website for full links, other content, and more! ]]

View the full article

[umpstu]

What was Francouer thinking?

[Thunderheads]

NY must have had a better view than what they showed there.............

[maven]

Another horrible team taking their frustrations out on the umpires. Yawn.

In other news, the Indians have not lost since the Cavaliers won game 7. 9-0 in that span, 11-0 since the game 6 win.

Hey, this thread needs hijacking.

[Larry in TN]

This replay made me think about "secure possession".

On a normal throw the 1B the time of the tag of the base is when the ball hits the back of the glove as the glove is immediately closing and completing "secure possession".

In this case the glove itself never grasped the ball, it only cupped it.  The free hand came in and, at some point, provided the "secure possession".  The reply didn't show when this occurred so the call stood.

In this type of situation, when is the ball in "secure possession"?

 

[maven]

30 minutes ago, Larry in TN said:

In this type of situation, when is the ball in "secure possession"?

This is a judgment call, so there's not much to discuss. (It wouldn't be terribly illuminating to reply, "when the fielder holds the ball securely in hand or glove.")

[Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Larry in TN said:

In this type of situation, when is the ball in "secure possession"?

Honestly, it depends whether the play is being called on the field, in real-time, or in Replay HQ.

On the field, we use this: Tag: "the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove..." which generally happens after a Catch: "the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it." So a vital component of the tag-out play like the one we have here is the act of holding the ball.

However, in the replay booth, we use this: "When reviewing such calls, the Replay Official shall determine that a fielder has caught the ball, consistent with the Official Baseball Rule's Definition of Terms (formerly Rule 2.00), at the point in time that the ball touches the fielder's hand or glove (so long as the fielder maintains possession of the ball from the point of contact and thereafter)." By that regulation, it's clear that Replay considers "secure possession" to exist at the moment the ball touches the hand or glove, so long as the fielder maintains possession.

On-field ruling wants a demonstration that the ball is securely held in real-time, Replay just looks for a touch ex post facto. It's a minor distinction because at the end of the day, 99% of the plays will be called the same.

This is the same kind of real-time vs replay conundrum that happened in basketball when they instituted replay and that still persists in basketball today. In basketball, in deciding when the period ends, the referee shall use the following sensory cues, in this order (note-removed red lights for clarity):

1) The audible end-of-period horn.
2) A visual clock at zero.

However, when the play goes to replay, the following cues are used, in this order:

1) A visual clock at zero.
2) The audible end-of-period horn.

Hence, a conundrum.

[Larry in TN]

4 minutes ago, Gil said:

...at the point in time that the ball touches the fielder's hand or glove (so long as the fielder maintains possession of the ball from the point of contact and thereafter)

So rolling around in the glove counts as long as contact is maintained?

[Lindsay]

6 hours ago, Larry in TN said:

So rolling around in the glove counts as long as contact is maintained?

Apparently so.

[maven]

So rolling around in the glove counts as long as contact is maintained?

That's a good question. Replay needs some point during the process of the catch to compare to the runner's touch. It's arbitrary which point we pick: but it makes sense to pick the point they did because we can SEE that point on video.

We can't see when the ball becomes securely held.

Also, the point they picked yields more outs.