Who's call?

[kstrunk]

2 man system in a D3 game. No runners, BR hits a ground ball to 1B, 5 or 6 feet off the line (obviously fair) not a screamer, but not a slow roller either. It goes right between the legs of the F3, and rolls into the outfield grass. BR turns  and heads for 2B. F3 gets to the ball, fires to 2B and there is a play.  What should each umpire be doing once the ball goes through the wickets of F3? 

[noumpere]

BU should be busting inside to pivot to take the play at second.

 

Both should be watching for OBS.

 

If somehow, BU gets "trapped" then PU can stop running up the line and make a hard left to take the play at second.  Good non-verbal communication / eye contact is needed here.

[maineump]

As U1 you have to pause and see the play develop. Once you see the ball through the legs, read the runner then react to what he does. In this case the runner decides to go to 2B, you are going to cut in behind him and get to 2B area for the call. There probably will not be a pivot and you would just go directly to get an angle. Remember angle over distance, so it will depend on your own speed on where you would go for the angle.

At the D-3 level, the runners will be a little faster, so I don't see you getting trapped. It is easier for BU to get to the call than it would be for the PU - and it is a shorter route.

If the runner doesn't advance, you need to be in position to see the back pick, so read/react is crucial here.

The plate umpire will be trailing the BR, and will watch for the normal stuff and be a second set of eyes for the obs/int plays.

[maven]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

BU should be busting inside to pivot to take the play at second.

Both should be watching for OBS.

If somehow, BU gets "trapped" then PU can stop running up the line and make a hard left to take the play at second.  Good non-verbal communication / eye contact is needed here.

I agree with this, and would just like to emphasize this part. If BU gets pinched and PU has parked his ass behind HP to enjoy the show, then the crew is utterly screwed (hopefully your college association doesn't have a lot of those guys).

If PU is already halfway to 1B when the runner takes off, then he can get to the working area to take the play at 2B if needed. And that will do the job.

A good trick (which works for any safe/out call we end up making from more than 20 feet away, and we have nowhere to be after) is this: we need to be set to see the play. Then, as you make your safe/out call, take 3-4 brisk steps toward the action. Hey, now you're right on top of it! Lookin good!

Thread title should be: "Whose call?"

[udbrky]

Maybe Who is BU here.

[ElkOil]

33 minutes ago, udbrky said:

Maybe Who is BU here.

No. Who's on first.

[udbrky]

WIth no baserunner on he is.

 

I bet his wife goes to pick up his check sometimes.

[ElkOil]

Who's check?

[BCBrad]

What is the name of his wife. 

[ElkOil]

17 hours ago, BCBrad said:

What is the name of his wife. 

*sigh* What's on second.

[zm1283]

On 3/18/2016 at 8:50 AM, maineump said:

As U1 you have to pause and see the play develop. Once you see the ball through the legs, read the runner then react to what he does. In this case the runner decides to go to 2B, you are going to cut in behind him and get to 2B area for the call. There probably will not be a pivot and you would just go directly to get an angle. Remember angle over distance, so it will depend on your own speed on where you would go for the angle.

At the D-3 level, the runners will be a little faster, so I don't see you getting trapped. It is easier for BU to get to the call than it would be for the PU - and it is a shorter route.

If the runner doesn't advance, you need to be in position to see the back pick, so read/react is crucial here.

The plate umpire will be trailing the BR, and will watch for the normal stuff and be a second set of eyes for the obs/int plays.

Once I see the ball through U3's legs, I'm getting inside, which allows me to take the BR into second or back into first. If you pause and wait, you're asking to get trapped and not able to get to second for a play there. 

[maven]

8 hours ago, zm1283 said:

Once I see the ball through U3's legs, I'm getting inside, which allows me to take the BR into second or back into first. If you pause and wait, you're asking to get trapped and not able to get to second for a play there. 

Agreed. Even if F9 is playing short and can make a play on the BR before he reaches 1B, we still want to be inside to gain the proper angle on that play.

I take it that your point was to resist maine's suggestion that we pause to read the runner. Instead, we immediately bust inside once F3 boots the ball: any subsequent play on the BR at any base will come from the outfield, and we will want to be inside to take it.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

Maineump said:  :"you are going to cut in behind him and get to 2B area for the call" I don't think this is such great advice. As the BU, don't you want to stay ahead of the runner"
He opinion in who's call it is correct, It is BU's responsibility. However, I don't really think it's sound advice to "follow the runner".
The BU, would need to try his best to stay ahead of the runner. Moving inside initially gets an angle on the play at 1st and gets you started and once the ball goes through, you should be able to get inside ahead of the runner and head to the working area to get an angle on the play at second.

[maineump]

My point wasn't to not get inside, but you need to see the ball get through. The ball has to take you to the play, and you can't just turn your back to the ball. Obviously you need to read how hard the ball is hit and if 2B has a play on it. These are variables that we need to watch for, before just busting in. I was taking the OP as a bobble kind of situation, not the hard through the legs.

If RF is coming in to make the back play, then yes on inside and pivot, but if runner is near the base around the time of the bobble, and you suspect he is running, then you don't have time to get in ahead of the runner and have to follow him in to 2B.

To me it is a HTBT kind of play. Sorry if I gave bad advice, as it is easier to see/do then write - a short between the fingers and brain thing  .

[kstrunk]

It's all good advice thus far, as far as I can tell. And yes... it is a HTBT kind of play. The speed of the ball and distance it traveled after the error could affect the mechanic I suppose? 

May I throw in another wrinkle?... the possibility of obstruction on F4 who was coming to cover 1B if necessary. It wasn't called, maybe because there was no contact? But there was nearly contact, and the BR was clearly deviated from his path to 2B. 

Again, this was a D3 game, so I'm not sure of how obstruction is interpreted/called at that level. The BR was called out at 2nd. So I'm curious about obstruction in the NCAA. 

[noumpere]

16 minutes ago, kstrunk said:

Again, this was a D3 game, so I'm not sure of how obstruction is interpreted/called at that level. The BR was called out at 2nd. So I'm curious about obstruction in the NCAA. 

The same as OBR.

 

And, in my experience, you are more likely to get OBS by F3 who turns to chase the ball through his legs than from F4.  But, yes, it is something both umpires need to watch for.