Definition and examples of timing play

[Guest New_Umpire_Blue]

I'm a new umpire and haven't worked any games yet.  I've been in clinics for the past few weeks and I'm about to start working girl's fastpitch 13-18 (non- high school) and
 possibly some ASA fastpitch.   I've heard umpires talk about "timing plays" and I asked them to explain it.  I've never had it come up in any games I've been to, and none of my coach friends know what I'm talking about which is no surprise since most of them only know strike-ball-safe-out.   I thought I understood it but now I'm not so sure.  According to Federation and ASA, could someone please explain to me what a "timing play" really is, a few good examples (nothing too complicated, please!)?  I would really appreciate any help with this.  Thanks in advance!

[noumpere]

When the third out is made on a non-force play, AND not on the batter before s/he reaches first, any runs that score before the third out count; those that "score" after the third out is made do not count.  You're comparing the TIME of the run and the TIME of the out -- thus, "Time" (not timing) play.

[Guest Guest]

Thank you for the response. 

 

Question:

Runners on 1st and 3rd, two outs.

Batter hits ground ball to shortstop, who throws to first.  First doesn't step on the bag; instead, she goes for the tag on the batter-runner.

Runner from 3rd runs home and touches the plate before the tag is put on the batter-runner. 

Based on what you've told me, the run would score as the final out, although on the batter-runner, was not a 'force' -- it was a tag (bad choice by the 1st baseman)

 

Or am I incorrect?

 

[VAUmp]

Not correct.  Even though F3 tagged the BR, because there was a force there, the run would not count.

[maineump]

Generally, where you will see it is when the is a runner on 2B, base hit to the outfield. R2 attempts to score and batter tries for second on the throw. The outfielder throws in to 2B. If the Batter/runner is tagged out after the runner from 2B scores, then the run counts - if the batter is tagged out before the run scores, the no run, as the third out was TAGGED (in a non-force) before the run crosses the plate.

Another time you might see it is the 'walk-away steal'. I don't know if I have ever seen this work like it is intended but-   The runner from first walks away or ties to get into a rundown with a runner on third - the defense has the option of running the rundown or trying to get the runner at the plate. Same goes for the tag/run scoring. IMO, any coach that tries this with 2 outs is crazy, as any coach should teach his team how to defend it. That is probably why it never seems to work - the defense is better prepared for the play than the offense .

Edited May 2, 2015 by maineump
another thought

[umpstu]

Had a good one last week.  Bases loaded with one out.  Batter hit a long fly ball to left fielder who caught the ball and threw to third to get the runner that had tagged up and tried to advance.  The runner at third had also tagged up and took his sweet time getting to home, which resulted in the third out occurring at third base prior to him reaching home.  Player hopefully learned a big lesson from that.

 

[maineump]

Had a good one last week.  Bases loaded with one out.  Batter hit a long fly ball to left fielder who caught the ball and threw to third to get the runner that had tagged up and tried to advance.  The runner at third had also tagged up and took his sweet time getting to home, which resulted in the third out occurring at third base prior to him reaching home.  Player hopefully learned a big lesson from that.

 

​Sounds like the Red Sox on the base paths!!   That is a good example and happens often as well.

[noumpere]

When the third out is made on a non-force play, AND not on the batter before s/he reaches first, any runs that score before the third out count; those that "score" after the third out is made do not count.  You're comparing the TIME of the run and the TIME of the out -- thus, "Time" (not timing) play.

​

Thank you for the response. 

 

Question:

Runners on 1st and 3rd, two outs.

Batter hits ground ball to shortstop, who throws to first.  First doesn't step on the bag; instead, she goes for the tag on the batter-runner.

Runner from 3rd runs home and touches the plate before the tag is put on the batter-runner. 

Based on what you've told me, the run would score as the final out, although on the batter-runner, was not a 'force' -- it was a tag (bad choice by the 1st baseman)

 

Or am I incorrect?

 

​Incorrect.  See the red part above.

 

And, remember that a "force out" can be made by tagging the runner -- not just by tagging the bag.  (While BR at first is not technically a force play, it can be considered one except for one really arcane play (so arcane, I can't even recall it right now).