foul ball

[Guest Chris]

situation 1: no one on, no count... Batter hits ball straight back to f2... Ball hits f2's chest protector and pops up in the air. The f2 catches the deflection in the air.

Situation 2: same scenario... Batter hits pop up to f5 in foul territory. He loses the ball In the sun... The ball hits his shoulder and pops in the air, he then catches the deflection.

Rule cite too please. Thank you!

[Rich Ives]

Noumpere. I can clear up your confusion. Your fellow umpire is confused because he is an imperfect human being. He is suppose to be your brother. Stop the condescending remarks.

Every winter we break out our books and every winter we all have a brain lapse on a rule that we have known, or we thought we knew. My brain lapse this year is on foul tip. The MLB manual is clear that a foul tip can first hit the catcher's glove sharply and directly and then hit his chest protector and then be caught for a strike and if it's the 3rd strike the batter is out. The manual is silent about the mask. I started to question whether a foul tip can go directly to glove and then mask and be caught. I don't have casebook I think the same principle applies. If the pitch is nicked and goes directly to the catcher's glove and then bounces off any part of his gear, I think we have a catch. I would appreciate knowing for sure. I am embarrassed that I don't know for sure. I would rather be embarrassed on this site rather than the diamond.

 

WTF?

 

RTFM: 

 

A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s

hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught

is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first

touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

 

If it rebounds after hitting the glove or hands and is legally caught it's a catch. No need for other analysis of the rebound location.

[Sayhey]

Rotating from 3rd base to 2nd base is a basic mechanic that Hunter has performed well or poorly almost countless times. To be asked your opinion on a check swing when you know the batter struck the ball is so rare that I can say that I have never seen it happen. I don't think Eric Cooper had ever seen it happen. I don't think Ted Barrett ever saw it happen. We were screwed by The Third Team editing. We didn't hear Kellogg's or Reynold's response to Eric, nor did we hear Hunter's response to Mr. Barrett's question. If the mechanic is so easy why are World Series umpires asking their partners for insight? Umpiring is always evolving. I believe we were witnesses to evolution. Unfortunately, we didn't hear the answer. My friend is sitting under 40 hours of instruction from Mike Winters in San Diego. I will have him ask Mr. winters what the mechanic is.

[Sayhey]

Rich Ives- thank you for the clarification. That was quick. It could of been done without the condescending W.T.F. Remark. What is the RT.F.M. : mean? Is that like J/R? Is it a reference to a manual. "If a foul tip first strikes a catcher's glove and then goes on through and is caught by both hands against his body or protector, it is a strike, and if the third strike,the batter is out. 6.05 ©. That's from the MLB website. There is no mention of mask or shinguard. I believe it is inferred, rather than stated. I was looking for stronger evidence than inference.

[Sayhey]

The dropped third strike rule was instituted in 1888 when strikes were reduced from 4 to 3.

In 1942 it was stated in the rule book that the rule was instituted to prevent catcher's from purposely dropping strike 3 to get a double or triple play.

[Sayhey]

' if smothered against his chest or protector it is a catch, provided it hit his glove or hand first'. 6.05 (B) final line in rule. There is no mention of face mask or shin guard. So, maybe there is a need for further analysis. If I have the question, others will also have questions. That's what this site is about.

[noumpere]

Noumpere. I can clear up your confusion. Your fellow umpire is confused because he is an imperfect human being. He is suppose to be your brother. Stop the condescending remarks.

 

I'm not sure you know what condescending means.  Here's a hint: What I said in post #49 wasn't.

[1dumbquestion]

Rich Ives- thank you for the clarification. That was quick. It could of been done without the condescending W.T.F. Remark. What is the RT.F.M. : mean? Is that like J/R? Is it a reference to a manual. "If a foul tip first strikes a catcher's glove and then goes on through and is caught by both hands against his body or protector, it is a strike, and if the third strike,the batter is out. 6.05 ©. That's from the MLB website. There is no mention of mask or shinguard. I believe it is inferred, rather than stated. I was looking for stronger evidence than inference.

I get the feeling you didn't read through this entire thread or all of your questions would have been answered. I'm guessing RTFM means something like "read the f-ing manual"... just a guess. 1

[johnnyg08]

 

Noumpere. I can clear up your confusion. Your fellow umpire is confused because he is an imperfect human being. He is suppose to be your brother. Stop the condescending remarks.

Every winter we break out our books and every winter we all have a brain lapse on a rule that we have known, or we thought we knew. My brain lapse this year is on foul tip. The MLB manual is clear that a foul tip can first hit the catcher's glove sharply and directly and then hit his chest protector and then be caught for a strike and if it's the 3rd strike the batter is out. The manual is silent about the mask. I started to question whether a foul tip can go directly to glove and then mask and be caught. I don't have casebook I think the same principle applies. If the pitch is nicked and goes directly to the catcher's glove and then bounces off any part of his gear, I think we have a catch. I would appreciate knowing for sure. I am embarrassed that I don't know for sure. I would rather be embarrassed on this site rather than the diamond.

 

WTF?

 

RTFM: 

 

A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s

hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught

is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first

touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

 

If it rebounds after hitting the glove or hands and is legally caught it's a catch. No need for other analysis of the rebound location.

 

 

 

The key piece after this is that only the catcher may secure the ball for an out.  Same in all codes.

[mrumpiresir]

I'm with noumpere .   I'm surprised we have three pages on this.

 

 A batted ball that goes sharp and direct to the catcher's hand or mitt and is held is a foul tip.

 

A batted ball that goes sharp and direct to the catcher's hand and pops out but is subsequently held, even if it rebounds off the mask, is a foul tip.

 

A batted ball that goes sharp and direct and hits the catcher anywhere besides his hand or mitt is a foul ball and immediately dead of course.

 

I guess if the players are eight years old this could happen. Doesn't really happen with big boy ball.

[Rich Ives]

Rich Ives- thank you for the clarification. That was quick. It could of been done without the condescending W.T.F. Remark. What is the RT.F.M. : mean? Is that like J/R? Is it a reference to a manual. "If a foul tip first strikes a catcher's glove and then goes on through and is caught by both hands against his body or protector, it is a strike, and if the third strike,the batter is out. 6.05 ©. That's from the MLB website. There is no mention of mask or shinguard. I believe it is inferred, rather than stated. I was looking for stronger evidence than inference.

 

It was in reference to your saying "The manual is silent about the mask. I started to question whether a foul tip can go directly to glove and then mask and be caught."

 

It can be caught if it hit the hand or glove first - even if it's a rebound. So sayith the rule. That's the only requirement for it to be caught.