Head first slide - out or not? (LL rules)

[Guest Rob]

Runner on first. Long fly ball to left center fence. LF chases down ball but does not catch it (very close). Base runner at first heads for second and touches second base -- but then thinks the LF has caught ball and turns around back to first base. Runner then sees that runner is called safe at first realizes the ball was not caught (and 1B coach is saying go to second). He turns around back to second. Runner dives in head first to second base ahead of the throw. Called safe.

 

Coach on opposing team calls time out. Says it was a head first slide and by LL rules runner should be called out for sliding head first. Umpire says since he touched second already, he had possession of second he was actually coming back to second - a situation where a head first slide is allowed (back to bag). What is the correct ruling?

[grayhawk]

The coach was correct.  Players are allowed to dive back to a base, but if they are advancing and slide head first, they should be called out.  The fact that he had already touched that base is irrelevant.  The runner was advancing.

[Rich Ives]

Grayhawk has it right.

[elares]

I am going to tell that manager that the runner was advancing from 1st to 2nd and that makes an out for the head first slide.  Toward the next base (n+1) is advancing.

 

Good try by the manager to find some wiggle in wording the rule.

[Guest Guest]

Thanks for your answers. So the key fact here is runner was "advancing" rather than "retreating"? Since baserunner was moving from 1st to 2nd he was advancing -- even though he had already touched 2nd base before heading back to 1st base then turning around again to head for 2nd base? So call should have been OUT at second? (BTW I was the coach who called time and asked for the safe call to be changed to an out.) Thanks again!

[basejester]

Head-first slides are legal when advancing in Intermediate division and above.  I'm assuming you're talking about a level below that, but I thought I'd mention that just in case.

[Guest Rob]

LL Rules in this case. 

[Rich Ives]

LL Rules in this case. 

 

Intermediate and up is still LL and some of the rules are different. You need to specify majors/minors if that's the level you are playing.

[Larry in TN]

Off on a slight tangent...

 

In this case R1 had already touched 2B and had retreated toward 1B in error.  When he corrects his error and is once again advancing toward 2B must he be tagged out or is the force still in play at 2B?  Was the force removed when he touched 2B the first time?

[Rich Ives]

Off on a slight tangent...

 

In this case R1 had already touched 2B and had retreated toward 1B in error.  When he corrects his error and is once again advancing toward 2B must he be tagged out or is the force still in play at 2B?  Was the force removed when he touched 2B the first time?

 

7.08(e )

(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the runner must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which he is forced;

[Larry in TN]

Thanks!