Blocking Basepath

[IllinoisRHP]

You guys are awesome.  Great/Quick answers to my first topic yesterday.  Here, I need some help on the coaching side to instruct players.  I realize this has a lot of arbitrary scenarios, so don't stress over it if it gets too complex:

 

 

We play 12U AABC Baseball under MLB Rules with a league rule of "must slide to avoid contact."  We have a competitive league, so there is good pace to the games...no sloppy play.  

 

This is the situation I have had more than once:

 

Runner on 2nd, one out:  Base hit to left field.  Runner is advancing towards third base (no force play) and third baseman is standing in the base path 3' in front of the base.  Runner slides but makes contact with the fielder and comes up short of the base by 2-feet.  Contact is made well before the fielder catches the ball.  Throw comes in and runner is tagged. 

 

My understanding is that contact with the fielder is immediately obstruction as long as the fielder is not in the act of catching the ball.   

 

If that is correct, here is my dilemma:

 

Do you feel it is proper to instruct my players to slide into the feet of the fielder?  I cannot afford to have them tip-toe around an out-of-place fielder because it will A) slow them down and B) teach bad habits.  Is there any situation where they will slide into the fielder ahead of the tag, but not get the obstruction call?  What if their slide would have clearly come up short of the base if the fielder was not in the way?  Is there a better way to handle this situation as a runner?

 

 

 

 

[maven]

First, your league rule is odd. Ordinarily leagues adopt a "must slide OR (try) to avoid contact" rule. I'm not sure yours makes sense.

 

Second, you've come to the wrong site for coaching advice. I, for example, have zero coaching experience and would not presume to tell you how to coach your kids. Some of the guys have coaching experience, but this is not a coaching site.

 

Third, we can tell you how to understand the OBS rule and when it should be called, but you will also need to take into account the umpires who work your league, how they understand and call your rule, and a host of other factors unrelated to umpiring. The defense can be obstructing all day, and if your umpires don't know what that is or how to rule on it, your knowing it won't help you much.

 

All that said, yes, if your runner must go around a fielder who does not have the ball and is not in the act of fielding a throw, that's OBS by rule.

[jjb]

Maven's right: you've got Obstruction here: depending on where the ball is at the time, you've got either type A or type B. That makes it either a Dead Ball or Live Ball.

 

Here's what your runner needs to do: he has to make the Obstruction as obvious as possible. If the ball isn't there, he needs to stop/slow up, throw up his hands like he's trying to avoid a collision, and go around the fielder. You "should" get the call: if not, you've got n uneducated Umpire and we can't help you....

[IllinoisRHP]

I agree with all you said:

 

1) That is how the league rule is written.  It is not worded correctly, because sliding can CAUSE contact.  But if there is imminent contact, you MUST slide.   You cannot try to avoid any other way.

 

2) I coach and umpire, so I realize there is a huge difference in viewing the game.  I am just looking for a rules based opinion, but appreciate you not forcing an answer!!

 

3) The problem on obstruction usually comes back to league umpires understanding the intent of the rule.  For this situation, they got it right one time, and the other said the runner's slide would not have reached the base...that shouldn't matter.

 

I strive to teach the game to the rules, not to what will get you results in the game.  Umpiring is tough, and at some of the younger levels you cannot worry about whether or not each umpire understands all 136 pages of the rule book.   If a kid is out by a bad interpretation, then it is what it is.  But at the end of the day, they will understand how to play to the rule book and how to give themselves the best chance.  

[SoCal Lurker]

 

1) That is how the league rule is written.  It is not worded correctly, because sliding can CAUSE contact.  But if there is imminent contact, you MUST slide.   You cannot try to avoid any other way.

 

 

You should work with the league to get an intelligible rule written . . . .

[umpire_scott]

I'm a little confused as to why you think instructing them to slide into a fielder is a better option than just going around them?  The rule is "must slide to avoid contact", not "must slide".  So if they go around them then there is not contact so the "must slide" rule does not apply.  I can't understand how going around F5 that is three feet from the base is going to slow your runner down more than sliding would?

 

The only benefit I see to sliding into the fielder is that it does make the OBS more obvious.

[IllinoisRHP]

This is in the case where a play is coming and going around could slow them up enough to make it close.  The options are to divert around the fielder, try to brush by the fielder (too risky with a no contact rule, it has been called against the runner a number of times), or slide to initiate contact and make it an obvious OBS call.  

 

If there is no play on the runner, it is much easier to round the base and take a different angle where the fielder is not in the way.    Thanks for the feedback everyone.

[KenBAZ]

As a coach who now umpires this seems simple to me. You want your kids to learn how to do things correctly for the way the game will be played on the big field. Any time a play might be made on you as a baserunner you want to read the defensive player and slide away from the tag. Your base coaches should be helping with this. Your ondeck hitter needs to be trained to assist on plays at the plate. The option to slide hard and knock the ball loose has been pretty much taken away. I agree that if a play is not eminent you should make the obstruction as obvious as possible, perhaps including having your runners make a verbal request for the fielder to clear their path.

[immaculate1976]

I have never coached or umpired a league that made players slide. The rule is always that you dont have to slide but you have to avoid contact. I dont think you should be teaching your players to slide into the fielder cause it is only a matter of time before someone gets hurt or they start to slide away from the base and at the fielder. I would talk to the umpire in the plate meeting and find out how he is going to handle this rule and go from there.

[ricka56]

We play 12U AABC Baseball under MLB Rules with a league rule of "must slide to avoid contact."  

 

Unless you have different AABC rules, you have "misread" the rules. AABC does not have a must slide rule.

I guess your league could have amended this very important AABC rule, but I doubt it.

 

Rule 218 Sliding

1. Any runner is out when the runner does not slide legally

            examples of illegal slides

 

2.  Any runner is out when the runner does not attempt to avoid contact with a fielder who has possession of the ball and is attempting to make a tag.

[umpire_scott]

This is in the case where a play is coming and going around could slow them up enough to make it close.  The options are to divert around the fielder, try to brush by the fielder (too risky with a no contact rule, it has been called against the runner a number of times), or slide to initiate contact and make it an obvious OBS call.  

 

If there is no play on the runner, it is much easier to round the base and take a different angle where the fielder is not in the way.    Thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

If they are slowed up because of the fielder being in the way then OBS should be called.  Think of it this way.  Let's look at the two options:

 

#1 - Slide into F5 three feet in front of the bag.  In this scenario you better hope that the ball wasn't almost there.  If so then you are asking the umpire to judge whether he had the ball in time or not.  And in this scenario he will not be on the bag so your only shot at him being safe is on the OBS.  You are leaving in the umpires hands completely.

 

#2 - Go around F5.  In this case he may actually make it safe on his own.  If the ball gets away he also is in a better position to make it home.  There is no danger of being called for MC for failing to avoid contact.

 

As I see it the only reason for #1 is that is can make the OBS more obvious.  But in my opinion that is not enough of a reason to coach #1 over #2.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

Lots of folks misinterpret rules like 218.1 "any runner is out when the runner does not slide legally"

 

I don't believe that is intended to say the runner MUST slide...it is actually saying that if/when a runner slides is must be a legal slide.

 

This is one of those cases where the FED rulebook is actually better written.

8-4-2-b2 "Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal"

When you consider that 218.1 (as quoted above) then continues on to list examples of illegal slides, its pretty clear to me that this is the intent of the rule.

 

Leagues need to quit trying to re-invent the wheel.  Every time some local-yocal tries to make modifications to existing rules, things like this will always occur.