My contribution for the year..

[Daniel]

Top 1:  Grounder to F6.  Throw pulls F3 off the bag, and F3 attempts to get back but comes no where near.  I signal off the base - Safe.   DHC groans from the dugout the F3 got back on.  Comes out and tells my partner he wants to appeal it to him.  Partner tells him F3 was off the bag.   We move on.

 

Bot 1:  Same HC is now in the 1B coach's box.  R1 is thrown out on a steal to 2B - close but out.  On my way back to A, the HC starts arguging that his runner was in there.  I said the tag was in time.   HC keeps arguging and at this point is holding up the game as he is on the 1B foul line and not in his box.  I instruct him to get back in his box.  He grumbles some more about that being two calls now and I tell him thats enough and that he needs to get in his box NOW.  He complies.

 

Bot 1 with 2 Out.   F5 gets a grounder and fires to F3 for a banger at 1B.   I bang the out and head to short RF.   I get about half way and he starts approaching me that his runner(s) were safe.  I told him what I had and that we aren't disucssing it any further.  He said "Well I wanna talk about the way you spoke to me."  OK.    I explained to him things could have gone much worse since he didn't listen the first time and kept arguing.   He responded with "I don't need to be treated like that.  When you grow up, maybe you'll learn how to talk to other adults properly."   At that point he was EJ and sits in the dugout for a few minutes, holding up the game.  (Time continues to run...)  He finally leaves the dugout and sits in front row of the bleachers in plain view.   "Now I REALLY get to yell" he yells.   I don't think so.  One of the assistants finally got him to leave the park and play resumed.

 

I recieved some grief the next day over this ejection...with the BS excuses of "We're trying to attract more teams" and "Don't eject anyone - just ignore".   I told my UIC at that point he would need to find a replacement for my other games this weekend as I would not work under those circumstances.  The tone changed to an apolgetic state pretty quick as he wasn't looking for that assigning nightmare...

[PonyUmpire]

1st problem is your partner allowing the "appeal". HC needs to talk to the calling umpire, who can then ask for help if he feels it appropriate.

[PonyUmpire]

Sounds like your UIC needs to grow a pair. No way am I leaving a coach in the game who tells me I need to "learn how to talk to other adults properly."

Just curious. Do you know exactly what it was you said that made the coach so incensed? It sounds like you did everything right, but could your tone or choice of words have made him feel demeaned? I'm not saying that that was necessarily the case; I'm just encouraging you to think about anything you maybe could have done better (even if the coach was being a jack wagon).

[immaculate1976]

I am with PonyUmpire the HC should not have went to your partner but your partner should have never said anything other than "That is his call coach." It is not his call and not for him to say anything other than that.

 

I would have ejected him as soon as he said that's 2 calls now. 

 

Good job with the UIC if they want you too take it then they need to double there pay or find someone else

[hillbillyump]

Oh that's two....see ya, you won't be around for the third one.

[Jocko]

Guys, counting isn't ejectionable in and of itself. A simple knock it off will suffice most of the time.

[treydawgmt]

Guys, counting isn't ejectionable in and of itself. A simple knock it off will suffice most of the time.

 

Depends on how it's said.  In a conversation to me, you're right.  If it's loud enough for everyone in the stands to hear - that in of itself is enough for me to EJ.  Even with absolutely nothing else.

[Jocko]

Guys, counting isn't ejectionable in and of itself. A simple knock it off will suffice most of the time.

 

Depends on how it's said.  In a conversation to me, you're right.  If it's loud enough for everyone in the stands to hear - that in of itself is enough for me to EJ.  Even with absolutely nothing else.is it prolonged? Profane? Personal? Exactly what criteria do you base the EJ on?

[treydawgmt]

 

 

Guys, counting isn't ejectionable in and of itself. A simple knock it off will suffice most of the time.

 

Depends on how it's said.  In a conversation to me, you're right.  If it's loud enough for everyone in the stands to hear - that in of itself is enough for me to EJ.  Even with absolutely nothing else. is it prolonged? Profane? Personal? Exactly what criteria do you base the EJ on?

 

 

Questioning my authority.  Which is personal.  I only did it once, and he had actually been a jackwagon to my partner who didn't have the balls to EJ.  Questioned two calls to my partner earlier in the game.  But then he said "That's three you've missed!" loud enough for everyone on that field and probably the 3 others to hear.  I was EJing him as he continued with "you guys are horrible, you're costing us the game."  However, "That's three you've missed" that loud and obnoxious says he feels I am not capable of doing my job - which I am.  So he's personally questioning my authority and ability to arbiter the game and what caused him to go.

[BigUmpire]

Was this a USSSA tournament ?

[Jocko]

Guys, counting isn't ejectionable in and of itself. A simple knock it off will suffice most of the time.

 

Depends on how it's said.  In a conversation to me, you're right.  If it's loud enough for everyone in the stands to hear - that in of itself is enough for me to EJ.  Even with absolutely nothing else. is it prolonged? Profane? Personal? Exactly what criteria do you base the EJ on?

 

Questioning my authority.  Which is personal.  I only did it once, and he had actually been a jackwagon to my partner who didn't have the balls to EJ.  Questioned two calls to my partner earlier in the game.  But then he said "That's three you've missed!" loud enough for everyone on that field and probably the 3 others to hear.  I was EJing him as he continued with "you guys are horrible, you're costing us the game."  However, "That's three you've missed" that loud and obnoxious says he feels I am not capable of doing my job - which I am.  So he's personally questioning my authority and ability to arbiter the game and what caused him to go.disagreeing with your judgement doesn't "question your authority. " I don't know you and have never seen you work. You may be the best umpire since........me but I do think this is a bit over the top on the game management. Last time a guy counted my calls, I said,"No Jim. Thats 3. YOU missed the other one." He looked at me and grinned then walked away.

[Daniel]

1st problem is your partner allowing the "appeal". HC needs to talk to the calling umpire, who can then ask for help if he feels it appropriate.

 

Pony,

 

I think my partner sensed from the tone of his voice ( and the type of play he wanted an "appeal" on ) that the HC was going to be quite the A-hole, and figured he better shut it down.  From our pre-game he knew if I said a fielder was off the base, that I was dead certain on it and would not be asking for help.  I personally don't have a problem with my partner telling a HC he had the same thing as I, if it saves from further discussion and delay on silly requests like this.  The actual "appeal" request was that his fielder got to the base before the runner did.   It will stop any coach dead turkey.

[BRUMP]

 

 

Guys, counting isn't ejectionable in and of itself. A simple knock it off will suffice most of the time.

 

Depends on how it's said.  In a conversation to me, you're right.  If it's loud enough for everyone in the stands to hear - that in of itself is enough for me to EJ.  Even with absolutely nothing else. is it prolonged? Profane? Personal? Exactly what criteria do you base the EJ on?

 

I consider it personal. If your questioning 1 call your disputing judgement. If your questioning more than one call at once your either questioning the umpires  a) integrity or b ) ability

[Daniel]

Just curious. Do you know exactly what it was you said that made the coach so incensed? It sounds like you did everything right, but could your tone or choice of words have made him feel demeaned? I'm not saying that that was necessarily the case; I'm just encouraging you to think about anything you maybe could have done better (even if the coach was being a jack wagon).

 

Nope, I just think he really didn't want to be there that night.   Although, perhaps a person probably half his age (myself)  instructing him to go back to his box was enough to make him feel that way.   The second time I said to him it wasn't a polite request, but rather a firm "I need you back in your box, NOW" deal.   The only thing I could have done differently was not let there be that second time and EJ for being out of his allowed position; although that would have come across redassed.

[PonyUmpire]

As a young umpire myself (20), I can definitely relate to the difficulty of commanding respect from coaches. I always try to be deliberate and professional in my exchanges with them, but sometimes you just gotta yell.

[Jocko]

@PonyUmpire

As a young umpire myself (20) 《《《《《《《《《 THIS is why you feel like》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》but sometimes ya just gotta yell

[PonyUmpire]

@PonyUmpire

As a young umpire myself (20) 《《《《《《《《《 THIS is why you feel like》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》but sometimes ya just gotta yell

Maybe. I just meant that there are some situations (like if a coach runs onto the field to argue while play is still in progress, or if two assistant coaches are trying to double team your partner), when you just have to kick it up a notch.

[Jocko]

@PonyUmpire

As a young umpire myself (20) 《《《《《《《《《 THIS is why you feel like》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》but sometimes ya just gotta yell

Maybe. I just meant that there are some situations (like if a coach runs onto the field to argue while play is still in progress, or if two assistant coaches are trying to double team your partner), when you just have to kick it up a notch.I personally throttle WAAAAYback. Let them be the ones looking aggressive. The more they scream and yell, the less I say. They'll finally get the hint that they're not going to get under my skin and either go away or cross the ej line. If the latter happens, I generally ask, "are you finished?" Then, their answer dictates my ej enthusiasm. "NO! I'M NOT FINISHED" "Yes you are. Boom!"

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

1st problem is your partner allowing the "appeal". HC needs to talk to the calling umpire, who can then ask for help if he feels it appropriate.

 

Pony,

 

I think my partner sensed from the tone of his voice ( and the type of play he wanted an "appeal" on ) that the HC was going to be quite the A-hole, and figured he better shut it down.  From our pre-game he knew if I said a fielder was off the base, that I was dead certain on it and would not be asking for help.  I personally don't have a problem with my partner telling a HC he had the same thing as I, if it saves from further discussion and delay on silly requests like this.  The actual "appeal" request was that his fielder got to the base before the runner did.   It will stop any coach dead turkey.

 

@Jocko sure does !!  

[Maineac]

 

 

Guys, counting isn't ejectionable in and of itself. A simple knock it off will suffice most of the time.

 

Depends on how it's said.  In a conversation to me, you're right.  If it's loud enough for everyone in the stands to hear - that in of itself is enough for me to EJ.  Even with absolutely nothing else. is it prolonged? Profane? Personal? Exactly what criteria do you base the EJ on?

 

The criterion I base this on is his not so veiled accusation that I'm cheating. "That's two." Two calls you think I missed, that benefitted the other team. I agree I might not send him simply on the count, maybe that can be shut down with a "knock it off," but it's a really short leash from there for me. 

[PonyUmpire]

 

 

1st problem is your partner allowing the "appeal". HC needs to talk to the calling umpire, who can then ask for help if he feels it appropriate.

 

Pony,

 

I think my partner sensed from the tone of his voice ( and the type of play he wanted an "appeal" on ) that the HC was going to be quite the A-hole, and figured he better shut it down.  From our pre-game he knew if I said a fielder was off the base, that I was dead certain on it and would not be asking for help.  I personally don't have a problem with my partner telling a HC he had the same thing as I, if it saves from further discussion and delay on silly requests like this.  The actual "appeal" request was that his fielder got to the base before the runner did.   It will stop any coach dead turkey.

 

@Jocko sure does !!  

 

Come on, now you're just axing fo' it.

[umpire_scott]

While I understand the proper protocol for appeals there are instances where I will just tell the coach I had the same thing.  I usually follow that with, "but in the future go to the umpire that actually made the call".  I will do that if I think my partner may not be equipped to handle the coach very well, or if there have been other issues in the game and I just think that nipping it right away is the best course of action.

[Daniel]

 

 

 

1st problem is your partner allowing the "appeal". HC needs to talk to the calling umpire, who can then ask for help if he feels it appropriate.

 

Pony,

 

I think my partner sensed from the tone of his voice ( and the type of play he wanted an "appeal" on ) that the HC was going to be quite the A-hole, and figured he better shut it down.  From our pre-game he knew if I said a fielder was off the base, that I was dead certain on it and would not be asking for help.  I personally don't have a problem with my partner telling a HC he had the same thing as I, if it saves from further discussion and delay on silly requests like this.  The actual "appeal" request was that his fielder got to the base before the runner did.   It will stop any coach dead turkey.

 

@Jocko sure does !!  

 

Come on, now you're just axing fo' it.

 

 

 

Alright Fish. 

[Specks]

While I understand the proper protocol for appeals there are instances where I will just tell the coach I had the same thing.  I usually follow that with, "but in the future go to the umpire that actually made the call".  I will do that if I think my partner may not be equipped to handle the coach very well, or if there have been other issues in the game and I just think that nipping it right away is the best course of action.

I think that's a mistake. Just direct him to your partner and let him tell the mgr what he had. If you think your partner isn't equipped to handle it then maybe it's because his partners keep covering for him and not letting him develop that skill. When I've working with new/young partners I pregame a signal that when they've reached a point where they don't know what to do or say give the signal and I'll come over and end it but they have to learn to handle a coach at some point. This isn't nipping anything in the bud it's developing bad habits. By coming to you the coach is trying to drive a wedge between you and the only friend you have out there. Personally if a coach goes to my partner on a call I made I get unhappy with the coach and also my partner for talking to him because it looks bad on me.

[umpire_scott]

 

While I understand the proper protocol for appeals there are instances where I will just tell the coach I had the same thing.  I usually follow that with, "but in the future go to the umpire that actually made the call".  I will do that if I think my partner may not be equipped to handle the coach very well, or if there have been other issues in the game and I just think that nipping it right away is the best course of action.

I think that's a mistake. Just direct him to your partner and let him tell the mgr what he had. If you think your partner isn't equipped to handle it then maybe it's because his partners keep covering for him and not letting him develop that skill. When I've working with new/young partners I pregame a signal that when they've reached a point where they don't know what to do or say give the signal and I'll come over and end it but they have to learn to handle a coach at some point. This isn't nipping anything in the bud it's developing bad habits. By coming to you the coach is trying to drive a wedge between you and the only friend you have out there. Personally if a coach goes to my partner on a call I made I get unhappy with the coach and also my partner for talking to him because it looks bad on me.

 

 

In general I agree with you, but most of the time this is a circumstance where the coach calls time and comes up to me simply because he does not know the proper protocol.  Most coaches do not know to go to the umpire that made the call first.  To non-umpires this makes sense.  Why would you go to the umpire that made the call if you want to know if the other umpire saw something different.  It can look rather tedious for the coach to ask me "did you see his foot off the bag", then me to say "that's not my call you'll have to talk to my partner".  Then he goes to my partner who says "let me go talk to my partner about it".  Then we talk and my partner says "out".  When all of this could have been accomplished by my simply saying "no".  If my partner validates my call I never feel slighted.  But he better never, and I never would, imply at all that he had something different to a coach.