My contribution for the year..

[scrounge]

While I understand the proper protocol for appeals there are instances where I will just tell the coach I had the same thing. I usually follow that with, "but in the future go to the umpire that actually made the call". I will do that if I think my partner may not be equipped to handle the coach very well, or if there have been other issues in the game and I just think that nipping it right away is the best course of action.

I think that's a mistake. Just direct him to your partner and let him tell the mgr what he had. If you think your partner isn't equipped to handle it then maybe it's because his partners keep covering for him and not letting him develop that skill. When I've working with new/young partners I pregame a signal that when they've reached a point where they don't know what to do or say give the signal and I'll come over and end it but they have to learn to handle a coach at some point. This isn't nipping anything in the bud it's developing bad habits. By coming to you the coach is trying to drive a wedge between you and the only friend you have out there. Personally if a coach goes to my partner on a call I made I get unhappy with the coach and also my partner for talking to him because it looks bad on me.

In general I agree with you, but most of the time this is a circumstance where the coach calls time and comes up to me simply because he does not know the proper protocol. Most coaches do not know to go to the umpire that made the call first. To non-umpires this makes sense. Why would you go to the umpire that made the call if you want to know if the other umpire saw something different. It can look rather tedious for the coach to ask me "did you see his foot off the bag", then me to say "that's not my call you'll have to talk to my partner". Then he goes to my partner who says "let me go talk to my partner about it". Then we talk and my partner says "out". When all of this could have been accomplished by my simply saying "no". If my partner validates my call I never feel slighted. But he better never, and I never would, imply at all that he had something different to a coach.

If you don't teach them the proper protocol and insist upon it, how are they ever going to learn? I've run into similar the few times this yr I've done rec ball. When they come to me, if they approach quietly, I'll say "coach, the way to do this is to politely ask the calling umpire - if he needs help, then he'll ask me but I'm not stepping in on my own". If they huff or yell, well - they just get a "it's his call coach" or "call's been made, coach, we're moving on".

And let's think a bit more about the implications - right or wrong - that you're giving. On a call early that you agree with, you tell the coach "I had the same thing". Then later in the game, there's one you're not sure of - or that you think is wrong. This time, you (properly) don't imply you have something different. But do you lie and (and destroye your credibility in his eyes) and say you have the same thing when you don't? If you do and your partner does eventually ask for help, now what do you say? Or do you say "coach, talk to my partner". So last time you backed him up and agreed, but this time you say "go talk to him"....coach will think you disagree but just won't say it this time.

Better to be consistent, take the extra 3 seconds and TRAIN the monkeys. A few of them...very few of them....will actually listen and some future umpire - maybe even you - will have it easier because they'll ask the right way and know WHY they're asking who they're asking.

[Replacematt]

Not to mention, what are you going to say if you do have something different? 

[umpire_scott]

 

 

 

While I understand the proper protocol for appeals there are instances where I will just tell the coach I had the same thing. I usually follow that with, "but in the future go to the umpire that actually made the call". I will do that if I think my partner may not be equipped to handle the coach very well, or if there have been other issues in the game and I just think that nipping it right away is the best course of action.

I think that's a mistake. Just direct him to your partner and let him tell the mgr what he had. If you think your partner isn't equipped to handle it then maybe it's because his partners keep covering for him and not letting him develop that skill. When I've working with new/young partners I pregame a signal that when they've reached a point where they don't know what to do or say give the signal and I'll come over and end it but they have to learn to handle a coach at some point. This isn't nipping anything in the bud it's developing bad habits. By coming to you the coach is trying to drive a wedge between you and the only friend you have out there. Personally if a coach goes to my partner on a call I made I get unhappy with the coach and also my partner for talking to him because it looks bad on me.

In general I agree with you, but most of the time this is a circumstance where the coach calls time and comes up to me simply because he does not know the proper protocol. Most coaches do not know to go to the umpire that made the call first. To non-umpires this makes sense. Why would you go to the umpire that made the call if you want to know if the other umpire saw something different. It can look rather tedious for the coach to ask me "did you see his foot off the bag", then me to say "that's not my call you'll have to talk to my partner". Then he goes to my partner who says "let me go talk to my partner about it". Then we talk and my partner says "out". When all of this could have been accomplished by my simply saying "no". If my partner validates my call I never feel slighted. But he better never, and I never would, imply at all that he had something different to a coach.

If you don't teach them the proper protocol and insist upon it, how are they ever going to learn? I've run into similar the few times this yr I've done rec ball. When they come to me, if they approach quietly, I'll say "coach, the way to do this is to politely ask the calling umpire - if he needs help, then he'll ask me but I'm not stepping in on my own". If they huff or yell, well - they just get a "it's his call coach" or "call's been made, coach, we're moving on".

And let's think a bit more about the implications - right or wrong - that you're giving. On a call early that you agree with, you tell the coach "I had the same thing". Then later in the game, there's one you're not sure of - or that you think is wrong. This time, you (properly) don't imply you have something different. But do you lie and (and destroye your credibility in his eyes) and say you have the same thing when you don't? If you do and your partner does eventually ask for help, now what do you say? Or do you say "coach, talk to my partner". So last time you backed him up and agreed, but this time you say "go talk to him"....coach will think you disagree but just won't say it this time.

Better to be consistent, take the extra 3 seconds and TRAIN the monkeys. A few of them...very few of them....will actually listen and some future umpire - maybe even you - will have it easier because they'll ask the right way and know WHY they're asking who they're asking.

 

 

You missed the part where I say "In the future go to the umpire that made the call".  If he came out a second time towards me I would remind him of that without making any mention of the play.

 

I do agree the better way of handling it would to be consistent.  I admit though on occasion I have taken the easy way out.  But I ALWAYS tell them "in the future go to the umpire that made the call"  In fact until I started working higher level games this was always part of my plate meeting.  I would say "If you have a question about a call make sure you request time and it is granted and then go to the umpire that made the call.  It's his discretion whether he comes to his partner for help. Please respect that decision".  If I have a coach I know is sort of a hothead I sometimes still do that at the plate meeting.  But I've grown to make the plate meeting much shorter as I've umpired at higher levels.

Not to mention, what are you going to say if you do have something different? 

 

Please go to umpire that made the call.

[HokieUmp]

 

 

Guys, counting isn't ejectionable in and of itself. A simple knock it off will suffice most of the time.

 

Depends on how it's said.  In a conversation to me, you're right.  If it's loud enough for everyone in the stands to hear - that in of itself is enough for me to EJ.  Even with absolutely nothing else. is it prolonged? Profane? Personal? Exactly what criteria do you base the EJ on?

 

 

Sorry to step in a month later, but:  "prolonged."  You don't get to bring up past calls, skip.  And, happily, the one coach I launched for that had decided to yell it from the 3B coaches box to me in the B position, so it was certainly loud enough to activate Mission Control.