First and Third

[sthomas13100]

OBR.  Runners at first and third with no outs.  Pitcher picks to third baseman standing some 10-15 feet from the base.  Runner at first takes off and gets thrown out at second.  Coach comes out to discuss play and states the third baseman was not in close enough area to make a play on the lead runner and wants me to rule throwing to an unoccupied base.  I stayed with my call.  Today, I'm not sure about the call.  Did I screw this up? 

[Replacematt]

Yep. Because of the rule change stating that a pitcher cannot feint to third from the rubber, this is a balk. Throwing to a fielder not in the vicinity of the base and not in position to make a play is considered a feint to that base.

If it makes you feel better, the coach was wrong, too. Third was occupied (occupation refers to runners, not fielders.)

[JaxRolo]

3rd is the new 1st. Treat it the same.

[MooseLoop]

3rd is the new 1st. Treat it the same.

Feinting to third still permitted in FED (high school rules) and Little League.

[JaxRolo]

 

3rd is the new 1st. Treat it the same.

Feinting to third still permitted in FED (high school rules) and Little League.

 

Don't know about LL but it sure is permitted in FED

[Sayhey]

Nice job Matt. 1st base and now third base in the same week. What measurement should we use Matt, when ruling on "making a play".

If I am the third baseman here and I can catch the throw from my pitcher and take 1 step and then make a tag attempt on R-3, have I met the criteria for being close enough to "make a play "?

The rule book says throw to the bag. How precise does the throw need to be to be legal? Step and a reach ok?

[Replacematt]

Nice job Matt. 1st base and now third base in the same week. What measurement should we use Matt, when ruling on "making a play".

If I am the third baseman here and I can catch the throw from my pitcher and take 1 step and then make a tag attempt on R-3, have I met the criteria for being close enough to "make a play "?

In your example, I'd have that as close enough. It's going to come down to judgment, and I have never seen any guidelines to tell us what is close enough. I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the defense--if he could make a play at where he was playing, it's fine.

 

The rule book says throw to the bag. How precise does the throw need to be to be legal? Step and a reach ok?

Probably a little bit more than that.

[Sayhey]

Good stuff. Thanks Matt.

[TStokes97]

Nice job Matt. 1st base and now third base in the same week. What measurement should we use Matt, when ruling on "making a play".

If I am the third baseman here and I can catch the throw from my pitcher and take 1 step and then make a tag attempt on R-3, have I met the criteria for being close enough to "make a play "?

In your example, I'd have that as close enough. It's going to come down to judgment, and I have never seen any guidelines to tell us what is close enough. I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the defense--if he could make a play at where he was playing, it's fine.

The rule book says throw to the bag. How precise does the throw need to be to be legal? Step and a reach ok?

Probably a little bit more than that.I'd say if the fielder was in a place to make a play if the throw was thrown where he is positioned at the time of the throw, or if he was moving to the bag for the throw

[sthomas13100]

The play I had, they were not compressing on the bag.  It seemed like a intentional play to get the runner at first to break (which worked).  I should have balked it.  I won't make that mistake again. 

 

Just to be sure, you guys are saying one step away or moving to the bag.

[grayhawk]

Nice job Matt. 1st base and now third base in the same week. What measurement should we use Matt, when ruling on "making a play".

If I am the third baseman here and I can catch the throw from my pitcher and take 1 step and then make a tag attempt on R-3, have I met the criteria for being close enough to "make a play "?

The rule book says throw to the bag. How precise does the throw need to be to be legal? Step and a reach ok?

 

According to Evans, the play doesn't have to be close at all.  As long as the umpire is convinced that "a play is in the works" then it's legal.  He also adds that "the fact that the play isn't close is irrelevant."

 

This is straight from the Jim Evans balk video.  I like this interp because we don't have to apply some arbitrary "closeness" criteria.  Was there a play in the works?  Yes, legal.  No, balk.  For me, the biggest factor in judging whether a play was on or not would be F5 (or F3) breaking before the throw.  If he just catches it at his position and then starts to move, then it looks to me like no play was in the works.

[noumpere]

The play I had, they were not compressing on the bag.  It seemed like a intentional play to get the runner at first to break (which worked).  I should have balked it.  I won't make that mistake again. 

 

Just to be sure, you guys are saying one step away or moving to the bag.

The rule at first has been there forever.  What criteria did you use there?  Use the same criteria at third.