R3 Stealing Home Scenarios

[Larry in TN]

A coach I used to work with sent me the following questions about possible scenarios with R3 stealing home.

 

Two outs, R3, 0-2 count. The runner on third attempts to steal home.  What is the rule if...

 

1) Runner touches plate before catcher catches the third strike?

 

2) Runner crosses the plate before the batter makes contact with the ball?

 

3) Runner touches plate, but catcher drops third strike?

 

4) Catcher drops 3rd strike throws to first base, but runner crosses plate before catcher releases ball? after he releases the ball? 

[maven]

1. No score. The batter made the third out before reaching 1B.
2. Somebody missed a sign. Run counts unless BR retired for third out before reaching 1B.
3. Stolen base, run counts unless BR retired for third out before reaching 1B.
4. Release of ball is irrelevant. No runs can score if BR is retired for 3rd out before reaching 1B.

Same in all codes.

[UmpJM]

Larry,

 

1. No run scores.

 

2. Runner goes to the hospital.

 

2. Batter becomes a runner.

 

3. Batter becomes a runner.

 

If the batter becomes a runner on the play, no run can score if he is retired before touching 1B.

 

If the batter becomes a runner on the play and reaches 1B safely, the run scores regardless of any particular timing of when he touched the plate vs. the catcher dropping or releasing the ball.

 

JM

[maven]

Hey John, the batter became a runner (quite briefly) in #1 as well.

[UmpJM]

Well, at least in FED....

 

JM

[rabbit]

Would 1) ever be possible??

[maven]

Would 1) ever be possible??

 

Sure. LHP comes set and holds. R3 goes. LHP hears him go, doesn't know what to do, freezes, then pitches.

[noumpere]

Would 1) ever be possible??

Of course.  Heck, there's even a note or rule in all the books about what to do if the pitch touches the runner -- which surely means that it happened at least once, and means that the runner can touch the plate before the ball reaches the catcher.

[Larry in TN]

Thanks for all the responses!

 

I'm working on putting together a reply to cover these situations.  How's this look?  My cites are from the LL rule book due to the context of the question.  Anything different in FED?

 

 

As to R3 stealing home…

 

-- If R3 touches home before the pitcher BEGINS the pitching motion then the run scores.

 

-- If the pitcher disengages from the rubber then he's now an infielder and there is no pitch.  If the batter swings at a throw from the disengaged pitcher who was trying to retire R3 then that's interference.

 

-- If a legal pitch is thrown and the batter it put-out (any method) before reaching 1B then the run does not score.

 

So, in your scenarios…

 

1) Runner touches plate before catcher catches the third strike? 

--No score, batter was put-out before reaching 1B.

 

2) Runner crosses the plate before the batter makes contact with the ball? 

--Depends on the result of the swing.  If batter is not put-out, or not put-out before reaching 1B, the run scores.  If the batter is put-out before reaching 1B, no score.

 

3) Runner touches plate, but catcher drops third strike? 

--Depends on the status of the batter safe/out at 1B.  See above.

 

4) Catcher drops 3rd strike throws to first base, but runner crosses plate before catcher releases ball? after he releases the ball?

--Depends on the status of the batter safe/out at 1B.

 

Here are a few rules which address other possibilities when R3 is stealing home.

 

5.09 - The pitch becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when -

(h) Intermediate (50/70) Division/Junior/Senior/Big League Baseball:

Any legal pitch touches a runner trying to score; runners advance.

 

7.07 - Intermediate (50/70) Division/Junior/Senior/Big League Baseball:

If with a runner on third base and trying to score by means of a squeeze play or steal, the cather or any other fielder steps on or in front of home base without possession of the ball, or touches the batter or the bat, the pitcher shall be charged with a balk, the batter shall be awarded first base on the interference and the ball is dead.

 

7.08 - Any runner is out when -

(g) attempting to score on a play in which the batter interferes with the play at home base before two are out.  With two out, the interference puts the batter out and no score counts

[maven]

What you've got is basically right, but I think you've included things that are nearly impossible (R3 scores before pitching motion starts) and buried the crucial information that comes up all the time. Raising issues about INT, catchers INT, pitch touching runners, etc. seems to stray even further afield. You're not giving an entire rules clinic, after all.

 

I recommend instead simply focusing on 4.09. 98% of coach questions about scoring — including those in the OP — can be answered with that one rule.