AWARD of BASE

[tbuck18]

Runner on first with no outs.. Runner is stealing on the pitch and the batter hits a fly ball to left that is caught. The runner has already touched second base and is going to third before he realizes the ball has been caught. He does not retouch second base on his way back to first and the left fielders throw goes to the first baseman (uncut) and over his head untouched and out of play. Since the award is based on the time of the outfielders release of the ball in this situation the runners position at the time of the left fielders throw was now between second and first but remember he missed the retouch of second base so now in awarding the base do you award third base in this situation???

[Rich Ives]

You award third base. Award ts two bases from his physical position the the time of the throw. Doesn't matter what he's touched.  That part is an appeal issue, not an award issue.

 

The runner is subject to being out on appeal if he doesn't retouch first, then go to third - touching 2B on the way. The on-the-way touch fixes the failed retouch.  If he does all the touches he's golden.

[Jocko]

Depends on the ruleset, Rainman. Base award the same, but hs doesn't allow retouch with dead ball.

[afaber12]

Yes, in this case the award is based on the time of the throw, but its on the base last legally occupied. Because of the catch, the runner's last legally occupied base is 1B, irrespective of whether he'd touched 2B attempting to advance or attempting to return for the retouch.

 

7.05i Comment (2nd paragraph):

If a runner is forced to return to a base after a catch, he must retouch his original base even

though, because of some ground rule or other rule, he is awarded additional bases. He may retouch

while the ball is dead and the award is then made from his original base.

 

7.10b Approved ruling #2:

When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has

advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base.

 

So, if the runner touched 2B advancing, then the ball's caught and the runner misses 2B headed back to 1B, and the ball goes out of play before the runner touches 1B, he can still save himself from the appeals, but he'd have to go 2B-1B-2B-3B. Once the ball's dead, he can't correct a mistake of a missing/skipping bases - at least until the ball's alive again. (Usain Bolt couldn't cover the 90 feet between bases in the time it takes the pitcher to throw to the base in question for the appeal, so he'd be better off hoping the defence didn't notice, rather than draw attention to it.)

[Rich Ives]

Jocko - just what rule set will not allow the retouch of 1b under a dead ball?

[Rich Ives]

Afaber - the initial award is two bases from the runner's physical position - always. If a retouch is required it can then be altered after the runner retouches. There is an example play in the MLBUM that illustrates this.

[baseballfan]

Rich Ives is right. In the PBUC manual, it gives an example of a play in which the runner is between 2nd and 3rd when the throw is made after the catch, but he has to retouch first. Initially, on such a play, you are award the runner home. If, however, he realizes his mistake and goes to retouch 1st before he touches 3rd base on his way to home, then you "correct" the award and now give him 3rd instead.

[UmpJM]

I concur with Rich Ives.

 

Jocko, of course you can correct a baserunning infraction in FED while the ball is dead - UNLESS you were a "base beyond" the "infraction base" when the ball became dead. (Unless, of course, the umpire judges a fielder intentionally threw the ball out of play to prevent the runner from correcting his infraction. No, I am not making this up.)

 

FED has also incorporated the "last time by" principle with regard to baserunning infractions.

 

JM

[afaber12]

Well consider me educated. At least on that point anyway - the rest of my life may well be up for debate on "educated v uneducated".

 

I'm looking at that section of the PBUC manual now. (6.11, example play #2 for those of you playing along at home looking for the spot these guys are talking about.)

 

It surprises me that that's the correct way to handle that situation. Obviously I'm not claiming to know better than the combined wisdom of PBUC, but it seems like doing it that way is almost asking the runner to ignore the requirement to tag up at 1B. I'd like to think when I'm playing that I wouldn't get that far enough off a base when there's a potential catch that I'm past the next base, but if I was for some reason, and I was awarded base(s) ahead of where I was up to, I'd not be heading back to retouch. (At least not before reading this board anyway.) Also, assuming the runner is aware enough to do the right thing, it seems like it would be inviting an argument from the OC when he sees me "change my mind" about the base I'm awarding his runner to.

 

Still, if that's the preferred/desired/ideal/proper way to handle it, then assuming this doesn't just go out the other ear that's the way I'll do it.

[Jocko]

I concur with Rich Ives. Jocko, of course you can correct a baserunning infraction in FED while the ball is dead - UNLESS you were a "base beyond" the "infraction base" when the ball became dead. (Unless, of course, the umpire judges a fielder intentionally threw the ball out of play to prevent the runner from correcting his infraction. No, I am not making this up.) FED has also incorporated the "last time by" principle with regard to baserunning infractions. JM

exactly the play I was alluding to. Thanks for reaffirming.

[Rich Ives]

I agree on the "beyond" FED ruling but in the OP the runner wasn't.

[noumpere]

Depends on the ruleset, Rainman. Base award the same, but hs doesn't allow retouch with dead ball.

In the OP, the runner was back between first and second, so the retouch is allowed.  If the runner had been still between second and third then the retouch would not be allowed (and the runner would be out on appeal even if he did retouch) (this last part is FED only).  So, it depends on the specifics of which play is currently being discussed as to who is right.