Wouldn't do this at home...

[basejester]

 

We already know how professional umpires handle it since we have a video of it posted in this thread.  You contend that one of the other three saw it, so assuming they did, why didn't they kill it? 

 

The way they handled didn't work very well.  They missed the call and lost control of the game. 

 

This board isn't going to reach a consensus on the right way to handle this, but it should illustrate that it's a potential point of contention that deserves a pregame discussion or absolute clarity from the governing organization.

[zm1283]

 

 

We already know how professional umpires handle it since we have a video of it posted in this thread.  You contend that one of the other three saw it, so assuming they did, why didn't they kill it? 

 

The way they handled didn't work very well.  They missed the call and lost control of the game. 

 

This board isn't going to reach a consensus on the right way to handle this, but it should illustrate that it's a potential point of contention that deserves a pregame discussion or absolute clarity from the governing organization.

 

 

They missed it but they didn't lose control of the game.  This isn't what losing control looks like.

 

People can handle it any way they want in travel ball and the like.  At the college and professional levels, base umpires don't call HBP for the PU unsolicited.  The NCAA has seven situations outlined where non-calling umpires can help unsolicited, and this is definitely not one of them.  

[Haid D' Salaami]

Here is my method of signaling D3k. This is the same method you see used/taught in the video as well as used by umpires working higher levels of baseball.......

 

 

- On DK3 I will give my swinging strike Mechanic (pointing strike mechanic) with arm extended.

- If it is unclear to the off. or def. that the ball was dropped (i.e. short hop), i will also give a verbal "No Catch"

- I take a read step right or left as needed to see the possible tag attempt.

- If tag is made, I give my OUT mechanic.

- If tag is attempted and missed, I will give the SAFE mechanic.

- If no tag attempt is made, I will leave my right arm extended until runner steps out of the dirt circle.

I try to let the play dictate what mechanics to use. Remember that our safe mechanic has many meanings....."Safe", "No catch", "that's Nothing", "balls in play" etc. To everyone else, safe mechanic only looks like safe. So I try to use it only when the situation calls for it.

And this is how it should be done.. simple.. not very many signals..

[jpperez14]

 

I disagree.  I want the call right.  If one of the other 3 has a view, call it.  Same with a foul in the box.  Sorry, I'm all for getting it right.  I think that's what we should do.

 

 

 

You can disagree all you want, but that is not how trained umpires handle this.  Go work with experienced professional or college umpires and call a HBP from the bases unsolicited and see how it works out for you.  I wouldn't want to be a part of that postgame.

 

Would you do the same if there wasn't a swing involved?  I have had many times where I THINK a batter got hit but he didn't, and a few times when he did get hit where I didn't see it from the bases.  Am I supposed to go running in and step on my partner's toes just because you want to get the call "right" (In your mind).

 

 

If you know for an absolute fact that you see the batter was hit by the pitch, why wouldn't you call it out? If you THINK he got hit, you don't say nothing, but if he comes for help you tell him what you got. It's not stepping on your partners toes if you see something that he didn't. Get the call right and move on. We are human we make mistakes. stop with the pride and all high and mighty and get together. you don't go running in either, you call time and just go talk to him. again, talk about it and get it right.

 

[zm1283]

 

 

I disagree.  I want the call right.  If one of the other 3 has a view, call it.  Same with a foul in the box.  Sorry, I'm all for getting it right.  I think that's what we should do.

 

 

 

You can disagree all you want, but that is not how trained umpires handle this.  Go work with experienced professional or college umpires and call a HBP from the bases unsolicited and see how it works out for you.  I wouldn't want to be a part of that postgame.

 

Would you do the same if there wasn't a swing involved?  I have had many times where I THINK a batter got hit but he didn't, and a few times when he did get hit where I didn't see it from the bases.  Am I supposed to go running in and step on my partner's toes just because you want to get the call "right" (In your mind).

 

 

If you know for an absolute fact that you see the batter was hit by the pitch, why wouldn't you call it out? If you THINK he got hit, you don't say nothing, but if he comes for help you tell him what you got. It's not stepping on your partners toes if you see something that he didn't. Get the call right and move on. We are human we make mistakes. stop with the pride and all high and mighty and get together. you don't go running in either, you call time and just go talk to him. again, talk about it and get it right.

 

 

 

From my last post on this page:

The NCAA has seven situations outlined where non-calling umpires can help unsolicited, and this is definitely not one of them.  

 

Professional umpires would handle it the same way as the NCAA does.  This situation is just not one where you go to your partner unsolicited.  Handle it how you want, but you might just run into a coach sometime who doesn't agree that you "for sure" saw a pitch hit a batter.  

[CentralOhioUmp30]

I disagree. I want the call right. If one of the other 3 has a view, call it. Same with a foul in the box. Sorry, I'm all for getting it right. I think that's what we should do.

You can disagree all you want, but that is not how trained umpires handle this. Go work with experienced professional or college umpires and call a HBP from the bases unsolicited and see how it works out for you. I wouldn't want to be a part of that postgame.

Would you do the same if there wasn't a swing involved? I have had many times where I THINK a batter got hit but he didn't, and a few times when he did get hit where I didn't see it from the bases. Am I supposed to go running in and step on my partner's toes just because you want to get the call "right" (In your mind).

If you know for an absolute fact that you see the batter was hit by the pitch, why wouldn't you call it out? If you THINK he got hit, you don't say nothing, but if he comes for help you tell him what you got. It's not stepping on your partners toes if you see something that he didn't. Get the call right and move on. We are human we make mistakes. stop with the pride and all high and mighty and get together. you don't go running in either, you call time and just go talk to him. again, talk about it and get it right.

From my last post on this page:

The NCAA has seven situations outlined where non-calling umpires can help unsolicited, and this is definitely not one of them.

Professional umpires would handle it the same way as the NCAA does. This situation is just not one where you go to your partner unsolicited. Handle it how you want, but you might just run into a coach sometime who doesn't agree that you "for sure" saw a pitch hit a batter.

So now we're not making a call because a coach would come out to argue? Kind of like Clint Hurdle did because his team got screwed on this play? Woah. Glad we avoided that confrontation. Oh, wait.

[zm1283]

 

 

 

 

I disagree. I want the call right. If one of the other 3 has a view, call it. Same with a foul in the box. Sorry, I'm all for getting it right. I think that's what we should do.

 

You can disagree all you want, but that is not how trained umpires handle this. Go work with experienced professional or college umpires and call a HBP from the bases unsolicited and see how it works out for you. I wouldn't want to be a part of that postgame.

Would you do the same if there wasn't a swing involved? I have had many times where I THINK a batter got hit but he didn't, and a few times when he did get hit where I didn't see it from the bases. Am I supposed to go running in and step on my partner's toes just because you want to get the call "right" (In your mind).

If you know for an absolute fact that you see the batter was hit by the pitch, why wouldn't you call it out? If you THINK he got hit, you don't say nothing, but if he comes for help you tell him what you got. It's not stepping on your partners toes if you see something that he didn't. Get the call right and move on. We are human we make mistakes. stop with the pride and all high and mighty and get together. you don't go running in either, you call time and just go talk to him. again, talk about it and get it right.

 

From my last post on this page:

The NCAA has seven situations outlined where non-calling umpires can help unsolicited, and this is definitely not one of them.

Professional umpires would handle it the same way as the NCAA does. This situation is just not one where you go to your partner unsolicited. Handle it how you want, but you might just run into a coach sometime who doesn't agree that you "for sure" saw a pitch hit a batter.

So now we're not making a call because a coach would come out to argue? Kind of like Clint Hurdle did because his team got screwed on this play? Woah. Glad we avoided that confrontation. Oh, wait.

 

 

I never said that, so quit making things up.  My point is that managers/head coaches at higher levels don't expect base umpires to call this, just like the NCAA and professional baseball don't expect base umpires to call this.  If I did this in a game working with some of the upper level NCAA umpires I know, I would be lambasted after the game and probably wouldn't be working with those guys anymore.   

 

As far as this video and Hurdle go: The PU could have gotten help.  I don't absolve him of blame here, but it's wrong to blame the base umpires for not coming in unsolicited to make this call for him on their own.  

 

I'm done repeating myself on this.

[CentralOhioUmp30]

So if a ball hits a batter then hits the umpire hard enough to effectively take him out of the game, the batter's staying in the box, right? The only way he could get first is if a base umpire made the call unsolicited.

This scenario is deliberately contrarian, but it still ends up proving my point in some fashion. :)

[afaber12]

So if a ball hits a batter then hits the umpire hard enough to effectively take him out of the game, the batter's staying in the box, right? The only way he could get first is if a base umpire made the call unsolicited.

This scenario is deliberately contrarian, but it still ends up proving my point in some fashion.

There's a difference between an umpire actively not calling something - you don't say "no he didn't swing" on a pitch the batter didn't even twitch the bat, or "that's nothing" on a ground ball hit between F5 and F6 with no runners on and BR stands on 1B - and un umpire not being able to make a call.

When a particular umpire is incapacitated, but would otherwise be required to make a call, yes the partner or the crew might have to make the call. When capable of making a call, no call has meaning.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CentralOhioUmp30]

So if a ball hits a batter then hits the umpire hard enough to effectively take him out of the game, the batter's staying in the box, right? The only way he could get first is if a base umpire made the call unsolicited.

This scenario is deliberately contrarian, but it still ends up proving my point in some fashion.

There's a difference between an umpire actively not calling something - you don't say "no he didn't swing" on a pitch the batter didn't even twitch the bat, or "that's nothing" on a ground ball hit between F5 and F6 with no runners on and BR stands on 1B - and un umpire not being able to make a call.

When a particular umpire is incapacitated, but would otherwise be required to make a call, yes the partner or the crew might have to make the call. When capable of making a call, no call has meaning.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It was tongue-in-cheek comment. I understand and accept was zm is saying. It's not something I would ever be upset about and if I had a manager question me I would seek out my partner(s) immediately to see if they had anything. Surprised that was done in this case.