5 run rule clarification

[sdix00]

In my rec league for the age groups that use the 5 run rule, they let the final play continue to completion and all runs count. For example, 4 runs in the inning and a kid hits a grand slam, all  8 runs count and the inning is over.

 

While the spirit of your league's rule may be admirable, allowing 8 runs is an illegal modification of the 5-run rule, unless you have a waiver.    It's minors, so it's pretty much what ever rules the parents can think up.    Red deuces and black nines are wild in my league. 

[clawdad]

I appreciate all the input.  I will present the info you all have given to the rest of our board.  Hopefully it will be painless

[SnareDrum]

In our 2013 rules for the leagues that will use it:

"Each half-inning will last until 3 outs are made or 5 runs are scored."

 

At the meeting last night, both the UIC and director told us that they want us to (loudly) end the play with the 5th run, and that's what they told the coaches as well.    Best of luck on your season!!!

[MattInVa]

I let it play out within reason.

 

For example, a clean hit scoring the 5th and 6th runs, team gets the ball in relatively cleanly, then I calmly say that's five and switch em up.

 

If things are wild, I will be emphatic that 5 runs have scored and the play is over.

[JonnyCat]

In our LL district, we'll let the play continue even if the 5th run has already scored. We want the kids to finish the play. FWIW, Western Region instructs us to count all of the runs on a home run that clears the fence. Their reasoning is to not penalize a kid for hitting a home run.

[sdix00]

In our LL district, we'll let the play continue even if the 5th run has already scored. We want the kids to finish the play. FWIW, Western Region instructs us to count all of the runs on a home run that clears the fence. Their reasoning is to not penalize a kid for hitting a home run.

 

 

Well THAT's interesting.    If only there were a place to publish these interps.   Perhaps a manual where they could instruct umpires how to interpret the rules (especially when the interp is couterintuitive to the reading of the rule).

[semper_fi_72]

In our LL district, we'll let the play continue even if the 5th run has already scored. We want the kids to finish the play. FWIW, Western Region instructs us to count all of the runs on a home run that clears the fence. Their reasoning is to not penalize a kid for hitting a home run.

I doubt Western Region is instructing anything on this.

This is a local rule, put in place by the league and not a Little League rule.

Please point out where a 5 run rule is in the Little League rule book?

I would like to see a Minor Player hit a HR over the fence.

Never have seen one yet.

 

Again this is instructional non-competitive ball.

Hits, runs,KOs and every other stat should not matter.

 

If you are running a Minor Program any other way, then you are penalizing the kids for more than hitting a Home Run.

BTW:  If a HR is hit, give the kid credit.  The team just cant score more then 5 runs in a inning.

[basejester]

I doubt Western Region is instructing anything on this.

This is a local rule, put in place by the league and not a Little League rule.

Please point out where a 5 run rule is in the Little League rule book?

5.07

. . .

Minor League: The side is retired when three offensive players are legally put out, or when all players on the roster have batted one time in the half-inning, or when the offensive team scores five (5) runs.

[semper_fi_72]

I doubt Western Region is instructing anything on this.

This is a local rule, put in place by the league and not a Little League rule.

Please point out where a 5 run rule is in the Little League rule book?

5.07

. . .

Minor League: The side is retired when three offensive players are legally put out, or when all players on the roster have batted one time in the half-inning, or when the offensive team scores five (5) runs.

Thank You and I stand corrected.

Haven't worked Minor games in years.

[Rich Ives]

Make no mistake, I would have no issue with them playing straight up baseball by the LL rulebook; no waivers, no local rules.  I have even advised coaches whose teams are getting slaughtered that "you can end the game early if you wish" (meaning forfeit). But none of them bite.  They would rather continue to put their players through the wringer, have the score run up on them to "teach their players a lesson", and get themselves pissed off in the process.  Then listen to the parents and coaches complain that the games are taking too long. 

 

Meanwhile, I'm out in the blazing sun from 10 a.m. until 2 p.m. in my plate gear.  I guess I could always call from behind F1

 

The 5 run rule IS straight up LL rules for minors. It stops run ups. . The rules also mandate CBO for minors and there are mandatory play (on defense) requirements. These are not modifications or local rules.

 

The coaches, for the most part, are there to get the kids playing time - to get them game experience and prepare them for majors.

 

Parents complain about long games . They rant about their kids not getting enough game time.

 

If  you want to umpire real ball, go find the games on a 90' field.

[semper_fi_72]

Meanwhile, I'm out in the blazing sun from 10 a.m. until 2 p.m. in my plate gear.  I guess I could always call from behind F1

 

I didn't think it was that warm in NY at this time of year.

Come on out to sunny southern California and working on a Saturday in 100 degrees plus.

Right now I am still trying to stay warm during night games with temps in the 50s.

 

If your going to umpire you can not complain about the games your umpiring.

Even when you get far enough along that you sometimes can self assign yourself to games at higher levels, it is, you get what you get.

If your getting paid you remain professional, regardless of the game.

If your volunteering and you have these complaints, I would take a look at why your out there.

Either way, each game is what you make of it.

[JonnyCat]

In our LL district, we'll let the play continue even if the 5th run has already scored. We want the kids to finish the play. FWIW, Western Region instructs us to count all of the runs on a home run that clears the fence. Their reasoning is to not penalize a kid for hitting a home run.

I doubt Western Region is instructing anything on this.

This is a local rule, put in place by the league and not a Little League rule.

Please point out where a 5 run rule is in the Little League rule book?

I would like to see a Minor Player hit a HR over the fence.

Never have seen one yet.

 

Again this is instructional non-competitive ball.

Hits, runs,KOs and every other stat should not matter.

 

If you are running a Minor Program any other way, then you are penalizing the kids for more than hitting a Home Run.

BTW:  If a HR is hit, give the kid credit.  The team just cant score more then 5 runs in a inning.

I'll e-mail the WR UIC and get clarification, but unless I heard wrong, they teach to count all of the runs on a home run over the fence. Any other time, we only count the 5 runs, but let the play continue.

I'll post what he says when I get it.

[JonnyCat]

In our LL district, we'll let the play continue even if the 5th run has already scored. We want the kids to finish the play. FWIW, Western Region instructs us to count all of the runs on a home run that clears the fence. Their reasoning is to not penalize a kid for hitting a home run.

 

 

Well THAT's interesting.    If only there were a place to publish these interps.   Perhaps a manual where they could instruct umpires how to interpret the rules (especially when the interp is couterintuitive to the reading of the rule).

If I'm not mistaken, (and I could be), counting runs in excess of 5 on a home run over the fence is what I heard the instructors teach at the numerous LL training I have attended at WR.

I cannot find that interp in the RIM, but that would not be the first time an interp was not published in the RIM. Not saying I agree or disagree with counting the runs, but I thought that was the policy. I'll look into it and see what the powers be say.

[JonnyCat]

Okay. Got clarification from the UIC of Western Region. They were saying, and teaching, that you should count the home run. However, what they meant was count the home run for scorekeeping purposes only, but no more than 5 runs per inning in any given inning. Unless, it is in the last inning and the run rule is suspended by the local league.

Also, they said that in the event of a home run over the fence, let the situation play out, don't kill it immediately after the 5th run has scored.

Sorry for the confusion. I miss-interpreted what they said in training. It won't happen again. Okay it probably will!

I'm going to have to educate alot of people in our area, as we have been teaching this for a few years now. I don't think it has ever happened in our district. This is one of the great things about this site, continuing education!

 

Thanks

John

[clawdad]

Meanwhile, I'm out in the blazing sun from 10 a.m. until 2 p.m. in my plate gear. I guess I could always call from behind F1

I didn't think it was that warm in NY at this time of year.
Come on out to sunny southern California and working on a Saturday in 100 degrees plus.
Right now I am still trying to stay warm during night games with temps in the 50s.

If your going to umpire you can not complain about the games your umpiring.
Even when you get far enough along that you sometimes can self assign yourself to games at higher levels, it is, you get what you get.
If your getting paid you remain professional, regardless of the game.
If your volunteering and you have these complaints, I would take a look at why your out there.
Either way, each game is what you make of it.

Semper-
I wish it was in the 50's now. It's 25 and snowing as I type this.
My experience was in late June, just happened to be one of the really warm days we occasionally get.

I am not complaining about umpiring. I really enjoy it, from the LL up to HS games I call. I feel I remain professional regardless of the type of game. I guess my rant was about the lack of volunteers to help out in any capacity with Little League, the lack of sportsmanship among the coaches, no one taking the time to inform themselves, and them forgetting that it's about the kids having fun & learning baseball. I should have put the rant on/off emoticons around most of that.

I got myself off topic. Thanks for getting me refocused.

Rich-
As far as not using local rules, I meant in reference to Majors. Unfortunately around here when you mention what the rulebook says, a lot of times even when people see it they don't believe it. All I can do is try to make them aware of things, and let them do with it as they wish.

Again, sorry I got off topic. Thanks for everyone's input.

[Engineer]

How do I delete a double post?

[Engineer]

In my rec league for the age groups that use the 5 run rule, they let the final play continue to completion and all runs count. For example, 4 runs in the inning and a kid hits a grand slam, all  8 runs count and the inning is over.

 

While the spirit of your league's rule may be admirable, allowing 8 runs is an illegal modification of the 5-run rule, unless you have a waiver.    It's minors, so it's pretty much what ever rules the parents can think up.    Red deuces and black nines are wild in my league. 

My rec leagues use modified NHFS, not LL rules. So they can have their own version of the rule.

[cyclonehokiece]

How do I delete a double post?

You can't.  Mods can, but it doesn't happen too often.

[SnareDrum]

Even with rule modifications, I'd have to come out as "not in favor" of letting runs count past an imposed 5 run limit.  What if... tie game, let's make it 10-10 in the top of the last inning. VT pushes across 4 runs, then with a man on, batter hits the over-the-fence home run and the score is now 16-10.  HT comes up and scratches out couple of walks with some base hits, then a a bases loaded single scores the 5th run, and HT loses by 1.Or, if the HT gets in a position where a HR would win it, a smart(ass) DC just starts calling IBB's until they allow 5.

 

I'm all for scoring it a HR. Let the batter do his trot and get thumped at the plate by his team. Let the little slugger and team get it in the stats... but scoring all runs past 5... I'm not in favor.

[sdix00]

{Post deleted. . . because it was stupid.}

[Engineer]

The 5 run rule does not apply for the final inning aka unlimited scoring is allowed. They try to use the rule to speed up play and not to limit scoring opportunities.

[Engineer]

Oh, I forgot to mention that the trailing team is always allowed to score enough runs to tie or max 8 which ever is more.