removing the force

[fla ump]

ok quick  question to  make  sure i  have  this   right.. r1 batter  hit a bouncer  to first  he steps on  bag  that  removes  the  force at  second.  meaning  the runner has  to be  taged correct as  there  no  force for  them  to step on the  bag? LL rules in  effect

[basejester]

That's right.

[Dannytheman]

Yup.

[johnnyg08]

Just read the definition of a force out.  Understanding the terminology will help you become a better umpire.

[UMP45]

If all else fails you can cause a disturbance in the force by killing the Emperor! May the Force be with you!

[NFUA_44]

As Johnny has pointed out Rule 2 of OBR, Definitions, will not only give you the low down on how a force play works, but will give you great insights into important parts of many rules.  Things like a tag, catch, fair and foul though you can assume you know them, knowing the verbatim definition will help you better understand alot of aspects of the game and umpiring.

[fla ump]

nods had a coach  last  yr   get  on  me  till i  showed  him  the  rule on  force out  in  LL  last  y.r he  been  having   his boys   turn  it  first to  second was  the  first  ump to  call safe at  sec  for  no  tag

[johnnyg08]

nods had a coach  last  yr   get  on  me  till i  showed  him  the  rule on  force out  in  LL  last  y.r he  been  having   his boys   turn  it  first to  second was  the  first  ump to  call safe at  sec  for  no  tag

 

 

Unreal

[Rich Ives]

There are a number of people that think a forced runner legally loses his right to the base no matter what happens to the batter-runner. I know the force is removed play is described in the OBR comment but for a long time the LL book omitted (it's there now) the comment so a lot of folks don't realize it.

 

It would help if the OBR added a statement that the force on a runner is removed at the moment a trailing runner is put out.

[Dannytheman]

I am pretty sure it is in the "It's Your Call" booklet. I will look at the 2013 one and see what page I believe I saw it on.  (It's down in the bathroom)

[Rich Ives]

I am pretty sure it is in the "It's Your Call" booklet. I will look at the 2013 one and see what page I believe I saw it on.  (It's down in the bathroom)

 

Read my post again. I said it's in the rule book now.

[mstaylor]

The def of a force covers it, not sure what caused the confusion in the LL book. 

[Jocko]

The def of a force covers it, not sure what caused the confusion in the LL book. 

LL Coaches :fuel:

[Rich Ives]

Because the definition of force says a runner loses the right to a base when the batter becomes a runner.

 

He became a runner.

 

Therefore the runners are forced.

 

Were does it say it can get removed?

 

It doesn't.

 

This is where you all say:  "But the batter isn't a runner any more"

 

.And some thus say "But he became a runner - the criteria was met - therefore the other runners are forced,"

 

That's why it's misunderstood.

 

Roll your eyes all you want, but that's why it's misunderstood.  Think a minute about just the wording of the rule. No not your other knowledge base - just the wording of the rule. Get the why now?

[mstaylor]

But if the ball is hit in the air, what does the coach tell R1? He tells him to tag, if the ball is caught then he stays right there. absolutely the same removing of the force but that is never questioned. 

[Rich Ives]

You want logic?  Good luck with that.

[mstaylor]

Oh, I understand that completely. It is similar to wanting a bounced pitch that its the batter is be dead not a HBP. Not logical but I sure hear it enough times. However, I will explain it, if they still don't believe me I invite them to protest. I tell them I have made my ruling and if disagree then he needs to protest. Rarely if ever does anybody take me up on it. I haven't ever lost a protest. 

[basejester]

That's why it's misunderstood.

I'm skeptical about that. It's seems most misunderstood by people who show no evidence of ever having been in the same room as a rulebook.

I agree with your point about the literal words not specifying. It should be in the actual definition, not buried in the note.

[Guest Guest]

ok quick  question to  make  sure i  have  this   right.. r1 batter  hit a bouncer  to first  he steps on  bag  that  removes  the  force at  second.  meaning  the runner has  to be  taged correct as  there  no  force for  them  to step on the  bag? LL rules in  effect

 

ok quick  question to  make  sure i  have  this   right.. r1 batter  hit a bouncer  to first  he steps on  bag  that  removes  the  force at  second.  meaning  the runner has  to be  taged correct as  there  no  force for  them  to step on the  bag? LL rules in  effect

You are right, fla ump. Once 1st base is touched, the force out on other runners IS REMOVED. They must be tagged.

[JaxRolo]

ok quick question to make sure i have this right.. r1 batter hit a bouncer to first he steps on bag that removes the force at second. meaning the runner has to be taged correct as there no force for them to step on the bag? LL rules in effect ok quick question to make sure i have this right.. r1 batter hit a bouncer to first he steps on bag that removes the force at second. meaning the runner has to be taged correct as there no force for them to step on the bag? LL rules in effect

You are right, fla ump. Once 1st base is touched, the force out on other runners IS REMOVED. They must be tagged.

What?? What am I missing here