Balk - reversal?

[Thunderheads]

These balk videos aren't "new" but haven't been discussed ....slow day at MLBvideo guys!

http://www.mlb.com/v...198931&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=24198931&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_24198931&v=3

[mbrown2097]

Dickey --

Rule 8.01© Comment: The pitcher shall step “ahead of the throw.†A snap throw followed by

the step directly toward the base is a balk.

Looks like a balk to me. IMO this pickoff move begins from the rubber and precedes the step off.

[noumpere]

I agree this is a balk its a step with the pivot foot and a throw not a step off or disengagement followed by a throw. The foot needs to come down before the hands separate. Of couorse we let lefties get a way with separating early on the step back and throw to first move.

[cookie]

"...The foot needs to come down before the hands separate..."

That's a literal reading of the rule. However, in actuality, if the movement of the pivot foot precedes or is simultaneous with the throw, I have observed that most umpires do not call the balk.

[noumpere]

"...The foot needs to come down before the hands separate..."

That's a literal reading of the rule. However, in actuality, if the movement of the pivot foot precedes or is simultaneous with the throw, I have observed that most umpires do not call the balk.

So in this play on the video where theres a "opposite footed throw" to second youd allow it? I know the announcers said that this pitcher used this move all year but who know how accurate that is.

[mbrown2097]

The pitcher shall step “ahead of the throw.â€

Perhaps I am reading too much into this, but I read this to mean that he must step towards the base before throwing OR step off before throwing. I have a snap throw and then a step in the stitch above.

[cookie]

"...The foot needs to come down before the hands separate..."

That's a literal reading of the rule. However, in actuality, if the movement of the pivot foot precedes or is simultaneous with the throw, I have observed that most umpires do not call the balk.

So in this play on the video where theres a "opposite footed throw" to second youd allow it? I know the announcers said that this pitcher used this move all year but who know how accurate that is.

I have a step off with his pivot foot simultaneous with his arm (and of course torso movement). Most umpires I've observed wouldn't call this a balk even though it's not accord with the literal definition of the rule...

Also, let me qualify my statement "precedes or simultaneous with the throw." By throw, I don't mean time of throw, but the beginning of the arm movement of it.

[Jimurray]

"...The foot needs to come down before the hands separate..."

That's a literal reading of the rule. However, in actuality, if the movement of the pivot foot precedes or is simultaneous with the throw, I have observed that most umpires do not call the balk.

So in this play on the video where theres a "opposite footed throw" to second youd allow it? I know the announcers said that this pitcher used this move all year but who know how accurate that is.

I have a step off with his pivot foot simultaneous with his arm (and of course torso movement). Most umpires I've observed wouldn't call this a balk even though it's not accord with the literal definition of the rule...

Also, let me qualify my statement "precedes or simultaneous with the throw." By throw, I don't mean time of throw, but the beginning of the arm movement of it.

It looks like the PU asked if he "stepped off" and his partners gave him a yes. So if he called the balk on no step off then he could reverse it with that info. However, it was, or should be a balk, from any of the BU views.

[mstaylor]

The step needs to precede the throw. What he is doing is starting his arm but getting off before the release, so in a very technical sense, he has met the requirements. I think you could bang the balk and sell it.

What the announcers said was they can't argue the balk, which is not true. They can argue the rules portion of the balk, did he disengage, yes, no balk. If the BU said yes but after the release, that's judgement and they need to go away.