Balk question 423,695 (and counting lol)

[Tyennie]

Had sitch come up the other day, and I think (actually pretty sure) i booted this one. Jr BR (13-15yr)

RHP, R1. Pitcher starts with his free foot open toward first base, then he goes into his stretch position by moving free foot in front of him takes signs and then he comes set. Also there were times he would take little "adjustment" steps with his free foot, prior to coming set. Knowing the mound is crap, i determined he was just trying to get himself settled in a decent spot. However these little steps were actually movements of his free foot closing towards the rubber (inch or two at a time). Hope i described that well enough. thoughts??

[noumpere]

If its beyond the period where the pitcher was still in the overall act of taking the rubber then it was a balk for startign to come set but not doing so.

[Tyennie]

Thanks for the quick response. That is what I kept kicking myself for the past three days. Definitely beyond the initial act of engaging the rubber, as he is already in contact with the rubber when he has his free foot open towards 1B. Live and learn as they say.

[umpcoachfather]

Did he take the signs when he was off the rubber? Sory it's Monday.

[Tyennie]

nope. just engaged the plate, stood there a couple of seconds looking at R1, moved his free foot to a "normal" stretch location, took signs, came set (occaisionally with the aforementioned 'stutter' steps) and then pitched.

[umpcoachfather]

That was a joke Tyennie

[stl_ump]

Sorry.. but I'm confused a bit here by the situation as described.

The pitcher has his pivot foot on the rubber and his free foot slightly toward 1st but his hands are apart. Then he comes set and brings his hands together as well as his feet and that's a balk?

What am i missing here?

[noumpere]

Sorry.. but I'm confused a bit here by the situation as described.

The pitcher has his pivot foot on the rubber and his free foot slightly toward 1st but his hands are apart. Then he comes set and brings his hands together as well as his feet and that's a balk?

What am i missing here?

He moves his free foot to go from the 'look at R1" to the "look at the catcher" position and he hasnt come set yet.

A couple of seconds as described in a more recent post is borderline especially at the 13-15level as described. I might try to work with the pitcher and or coach here.

[Tyennie]

umpcoachfather - yes it is monday, since i obviously did not pick up on your dry witticism.

noumpere - the 'timeframe' would sometimes be a couple of seconds, and other times might be as many as 10 - 15 secs. Working with the coach might be a moot point as he himself is a former pitcher. have you ever known a pitcher who would admit to a balk?? :)

[stl_ump]

Ohhhh.. he is moving his foot twice. Once to look at the catcher and then a second time to come set. I got it now.

I would say that's definitely an "skill level / age group balk"

[dddunn3d]

"Before assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as 'the stretch.' But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter."

Sounds to me like the RHP was going into his stretch from an open starting position, then coming back into his set. A continuous motion from stretch to set is necessary. I've seen pitchers moving their free foot as little two-three inches back towards the pitcher's plate when coming set. If an F1 is closing the distance through several little movements, I'd think a balk call would be appropriate.

A crappy mound notwithstanding, if F1 is having difficulty finding a decent spot to place his free foot in his stretch, he should smooth out a place himself.

[noumpere]

I read it as first the pitcher engages the rubber and looks at the runner at first with his foot more or less toward first. Then he moves the foot to point more or less at the plate and looks in for the sign. Then he comes set.

[Tyennie]

You would be "reading" that correctly, Noumpere. I balked him two other times for simply not coming to a stop, kid darn near had a stroke. He is lucky i didn't toss him for those actions.

[RC@54OUTS]

moving his foot a second time, taking signs after the set. does he do this everytime? WTH. this kid must cuase all sorts of problems.

[Tyennie]

Oh Yeah. Plus he has the 'typical' 15 yr old attitude to go with it (ie he thinks he is the Almighty's gift to baseball)

[mstaylor]

Absolutely balk him. Explain it to him so he can tell he knows what he's doing, then balk him again. He will get rid of himself. I balked a kid three pitches in a row. He started his leg before finishing his hands. I explained it, he told me he knew what he was doing. He did it again so I balked him again, stepped out and repeated that he had to stop everything. He did it again so I balked him again. He was done.

[Tyennie]

ok here is 423,696. I am sure this one is out there somewhere i am just to lazy to go searching right now. LHP, r1 & r3, F1 comes set and then looks over his left shoulder toward 3B, he literally rolls his left shoulder toward 3B. With a RHP doing the same thing toward 1B, we would have a balk, since it was motion without a throw. But to 3B??? Or do we consider this the start of a pitching motion, without completion?? I am flipping confused this morning.

[umpcoachfather]

BALK!!!

I was coaching 1st over the weekend. pitcher never stopped in his delivery, i told the guy in "A" "Hey XXX, in my opinion he is not coming to a discernable stop" next pitch- "time you nedd to come to a stop that's your warning." thanks XXX. Man on first - lefty pitcher (same kid) throws to first from set, didnt even attempt to move his feet. didnt do it again the rest of the inning. goiing back to 1st, i told the BU ' hey can you watch him when he throws to first, i dont think he is stepping toward the base. next guy on base - he throws over - "time - thats a balk, you 2nd base" this is from the BU, the kid balked about 6 times during the game, PU never called a thing and they were "basic/easy" balks.

[noumpere]

ok here is 423,696. I am sure this one is out there somewhere i am just to lazy to go searching right now. LHP, r1 & r3, F1 comes set and then looks over his left shoulder toward 3B, he literally rolls his left shoulder toward 3B. With a RHP doing the same thing toward 1B, we would have a balk, since it was motion without a throw. But to 3B??? Or do we consider this the start of a pitching motion, without completion?? I am flipping confused this morning.

You need to judge whether its a motion or not but most of the time I dont think Id have it as a motion unless something else moved as well. And the rule applies to both RH and LH pitchers looking over the back should to the base behind them.

[Tyennie]

alrighty Balk-a-roonie it is. guess it goes to the deceptive move concept. have a good week all.

[MPLSMatt]

Don't say deceptive move. There is no rule against a deceptive move - that's coach speak for "I don't know what rule he's really violating."

[Tyennie]

lol, true in that regard. shall we agree an 'illegal deceptive move.' here is another one for you all. RHP spins CCW and throws to second before his free foot lands. it was really weird looking. I told the coach that his foot had to land before the throw. "Well we have been doing this move for thirty games and i have never heard that before." so what say you?

[mstaylor]

Coach, he has to step the base and throw, not throw to a base and step.

[Tyennie]

that is pretty much what i told him. I was trying to replicate this move last night, and the best and closest i could come up with was (try to follow along) somehow he disengaged and spun on his pivot foot at the same time, with the free foot never touching the ground. In this case with a legal disengagment he can do what ever the heck he wants. The caveat being- from my perspective at the dish, he never stepped back off the rubber., it looked to me like he just did a quick spin (as per post 22) Basically it was a really funky move.