Runner pushed off of 2B by F6's momentum

[johnnyg08]

Where's the video clip from this play?

I must be looking in the wrong place. It was in an MLB game. The throw came into 2b, fielder runs to tag runner at 2B, they collide at 2B, as a result of that collision, runner is off of 2b and umpire calls him out. thanks guys.

[Thunderheads]

what teams, what day ?!?! details man, details!

[johnnyg08]

It was fairly recent maybe the last month or so...the video is already on here somewhere, I just can't find it. MLB teams.

Can't remember the teams, the day, or any of that...

Those to saw the video will remember it though.

Hopefully it wasn't on another forum so I'm not wasting people's time...but I'm pretty sure it was on here.

[OHUMP]

Do not remember other team but it was the cubs player taken off second.

[OHUMP]

Look at foster gets Sveum post from May 18th I think that is the one you want.

[johnnyg08]

That's the one. Thank you!!

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21543637&source=MLB&gid=2012_05_18_chamlb_chnmlb_1

[UmpTTS43]

Watched it again. Still out.

[johnnyg08]

Watched it again. Still out.

I'm just trying to learn when I ask this...when the manager comes out to ask about this, how do you articulate what you have?

More than "I have him out."

Thank you.

[midmoump]

One of my favorite legal quotes comes from a hornbook on torts by Professors Prosser and Keeton. Speaking on the intentional tort of battery:

In a crowded world, a certain amount of personal contact is inevitable and must be accepted. Absent expression to the contrary, consent is assumed to all those ordinary contacts which are customary and reasonably necessary to the common intercourse of life, such as a tap on the shoulder to attract attention, a friendly grasp of the arm, or a casual jostling to make a passage. . . .

When a runner attempts to acquire a base, a certain amount of contact is expected as the fielder plays on the runner. The BRD cites Mike Fitzpatrick, former director of PBUC, as saying, "If a runner goes into a base without body control, he is out when a hard tag knocks him off the base." I interpret the term “hard tag†as one that is expected, is customary, and is reasonable during the course of play.

The converse of the rule should also be true: if the runner has body control, and is forced off the bag by the fielder through unexpected, irregular, or unreasonable means, the runner should not be declared out.

In the two examples below, the runner is determined to be out when he loses contact after a hard tag.

http://mlb.mlb.com/v...tent_id=9600727

http://sandiego.padr...4826735&c_id=sd

In this example, the runner loses contact during the tag and the umpire determines that the runner was pushed off the bag. http://oakland.athle...142091&c_id=oak

In this example the runner and first baseman make contact. The umpire determines that the runner did not have body control and is out.

[media=]

The contact between DeJesus and Beckham is obviously a judgment call left to the umpire's interpretation. With the luxury of replay it is clear that Beckham attempted a tag and did not initiate a collision. DeJesus executed a pop-up slide over the bag. The fielder and the runner collided over the bag, and the fielder fell on the runner off the bag.

http://mlb.com/video...ent_id=21543637

Did DeJesus have body control? Did Beckham execute a "hard tag?" For me I would also ask, "did an expected, customary, and reasonable tag force him off the base during his slide?" I would say that this was a collision between two players and not a “hard tag.†It is more akin to the Gant/Hrbek play and less like the other video examples. The runner's momentum and lack of body control was a chief contributor to the collision, therefore I don't think DeJesus was "pushed" off the bag. He's out.

[midmoump]

Watched it again. Still out.

I'm just trying to learn when I ask this...when the manager comes out to ask about this, how do you articulate what you have?

More than "I have him out."

Thank you.

I'd answer it this way, "The runner poped up while the fielder was trying to make the tag. They collided and your guy came off the bag. He's out."

Blah, blah, blah.

"He wasn't forced. It was a collision. It happens."

Blah. Blah. Blah. Piss. Moan. Whine.

"You're done."

-Pete

[mstaylor]

I have exactlywhat Pete has. The runner was safe on the slide but was doing a popup slide and last his balance on contact. That isn't the fielder intentional pushing him off, that is a runner not in control having contact with a fielder attempting a tag. He came of the base and was tagged, he's out.