Event filled 1/2 inning..........

[umped up]

Someone said on this forum (wihout me looking back to see who) said," you can have game after game as the FU and it goes smooth as silk and all the sudden, S@$t breaks loose". Paraphrasing of course but something like that.

I'm doing a 14AAA tournament which started yesterday and goes through Sunday. Last night no issues, well except for the 9:15pm start time that actually started at 10:45pm and me getting home at 1am just to get back up at 6am for a 8am start time. Oh well, maybe that's what set the stage for that crazy 1/2 inning.

Sorry this may be a tad long but I didn't want to start new post for different things, hang with me here.

Sitch 1

R2, GB to SS, I'm in the C, I stride pedal into the working area towards the 1st base side of the mound (or as close as possible) as I see the ball hit, keeping R2 in vision, clearing myself of the SS throwing to 1B, keeping in mind of possible R2 advancing to 3rd on the throw....which happened. BR out at first and the throw to 3rd was a little high, R2 dives to the outside of the bag and his momentum carried him beyond the bag while holding on....."momentarily" but gets back in time. The only thing I was slightly blocked by was the high base hiding his hand (fingers) at that last second. My angle was good, I swiveled my way to the open side when I saw this happening. I was sure he got back in time. As the tag was applied, I noticed no further reach from R2 or movement which led me to believe, he is on the bag or a hell of a salesman. "safe"! The coach and others in the 3rd base dugout of course let me know differently saying, "he was off the bag, he was off the bag". Coach asked for an appeal. I called time and went to my partner who was in a better position(straight down the line) to see if in fact that was the case. I asked him what he had. He said that the hand came off momentarily but got back in time of the tag. "safe"!

Walk ensues, then a stolen base.

Sitch 2

R2-R3 passed ball. R3 takes off for home but the ball ricochets back to the catcher off a pole. R3 stoppes and gets in a rundown while R2 takes possession of 3B. During the rundown, the coach and players were telling F2 to run him to the bag, while that was being said, R2 starts heading back to 2B. As F2 noticed R2 evacuating the bag and heading back to 2B, he made a quick throw to F5 which dropped the ball and both players are safe. The coach comes out of the dugout and told me that F5 touched 3B, Im like "what"? And so what! After further discussion, he claimed that R2, after touching 3rd and rounding it never retouched 3rd while going back to 2B. He was standing on 3B and actually used the bag to launch him back to 2B. Good try coach. You would think he would let that go but he swore R2 rounded and never retouched. There went 3 long minutes on a time limit game. BTW, (not that I needed confirmation but just for the record) PU had the exact same thing.

Sitch 3

Single follows that play scoring R2-R3. Now theres 1 out R1. The insuing play is a hard 2 hopper to F4 positioned in double play depth and the ball hits F4 right in the heal and the ball rebounds forward. As F4 goes forward to get the ball, R1 collides with F4 then R1 proceeds to 2B. I have nothing there???? Here's where it got a little juicy. Here's where rule clarification is needed. It's easy on here or in a huddle of buddies to talk situations and get it right but when its hammer time and all eyes are on you in a tournament where you have paying customers and they think it's their World Series is another. All the sudden, the decision is NOW.

My thought: I didn't call interference on that because the initial play was an error, he was not interferred with on that one. His error caused him to put himself in the line of fire. Is the fielder protected no matter what? Or is it on the innitial attempt?

Well, again, coach comes out and argues the (no call) and all I could stand by was that he was no longer protected by that rule once he had the opportunity to field the ball. At this time, he's thinking, what the hell else can happen here. SO AM I! Stay tuned!

Next batter walks loading the bases. Here's where it gets fun. (mind you this is all in 1/2 of an inning)

Sitch 4

A gap shot to left center, runners running thinking it's in the gap safely but the CF makes a great catch. Runners then retreat. The runner on first however was a little over agressive. As R2 retreats back to 2nd, R1 already rounded 2B and passed R2. I Immediately called R1 out for passing R2 which was the 3rd out. As I was calling R1 out, he was heading back to 1st base totally dismissing 2nd base (which caught PU's attention) and cutting across the diamond.

Wheeew! PU says the run crossed the plate before this happened. Here comes the head coach again out to argue. Im thinking, " Are you fricking kidding me"? Not the fact that he's out to argue, but the frequency in one inning that this is actually happening. He's arguing that it's a force out and the run shouldn't count. I was saying that once R1 passed R2 he was out, not by force but by illegally advancing past a runner.

The PU noticed R1 crossing the infield and said the run scored before this happened. This of course wasn't when the out was made. After another 10 minutes of discussion and including the director, the run was taken off the board because the out was made before the run scored (right as R1 passed R2). The PU said that he misunderstood the argument and thought that we were discussing when he noticed R1 missing 2B on the retouch darting through the infield. What? Anyway.....

Sitch 5

Question: I was told that once a runner passes another runner, it's a dead ball. Let's say the same situation happend as above but there was 0 out. CF makes the catch, R1 passes R2 for out number 2, is the ball dead at that point? Does the play continue?

What a mess. I think after all said and done that the right calls were made.

Let's hear it...............

[Replacematt]

R2-R3 passed ball. R3 takes off for home but the ball ricochets back to the catcher off a pole. R3 stoppes and gets in a rundown while R2 takes possession of 3B. During the rundown, the coach and players were telling F2 to run him to the bag, while that was being said, R2 starts heading back to 2B. As F2 noticed R2 evacuating the bag and heading back to 2B, he made a quick throw to F5 which dropped the ball and both players are safe. The coach comes out of the dugout and told me that F5 touched 3B, Im like "what"? And so what! After further discussion, he claimed that R2, after touching 3rd and rounding it never retouched 3rd while going back to 2B. He was standing on 3B and actually used the bag to launch him back to 2B. Good try coach. You would think he would let that go but he swore R2 rounded and never retouched. There went 3 long minutes on a time limit game. BTW, (not that I needed confirmation but just for the record) PU had the exact same thing.

Why the discussion? You can't tell a coach whether he missed or not--this is an appeal play. Defense needs to make an appeal on a missed base, and you can't say jack.

Single follows that play scoring R2-R3. Now theres 1 out R1. The insuing play is a hard 2 hopper to F4 positioned in double play depth and the ball hits F4 right in the heal and the ball rebounds forward. As F4 goes forward to get the ball, R1 collides with F4 then R1 proceeds to 2B. I have nothing there???? Here's where it got a little juicy. Here's where rule clarification is needed. It's easy on here or in a huddle of buddies to talk situations and get it right but when its hammer time and all eyes are on you in a tournament where you have paying customers and they think it's their World Series is another. All the sudden, the decision is NOW.

My thought: I didn't call interference on that because the initial play was an error, he was not interferred with on that one. His error caused him to put himself in the line of fire. Is the fielder protected no matter what? Or is it on the innitial attempt?

Well, again, coach comes out and argues the (no call) and all I could stand by was that he was no longer protected by that rule once he had the opportunity to field the ball. At this time, he's thinking, what the hell else can happen here. SO AM I! Stay tuned!

Can't tell if there was interference or not. If the ball is within a step and a reach of the fielder on a misplay, he is still protected. Was it?

A gap shot to left center, runners running thinking it's in the gap safely but the CF makes a great catch. Runners then retreat. The runner on first however was a little over agressive. As R2 retreats back to 2nd, R1 already rounded 2B and passed R2. I Immediately called R1 out for passing R2 which was the 3rd out. As I was calling R1 out, he was heading back to 1st base totally dismissing 2nd base (which caught PU's attention) and cutting across the diamond.

Wheeew! PU says the run crossed the plate before this happened. Here comes the head coach again out to argue. Im thinking, " Are you fricking kidding me"? Not the fact that he's out to argue, but the frequency in one inning that this is actually happening. He's arguing that it's a force out and the run shouldn't count. I was saying that once R1 passed R2 he was out, not by force but by illegally advancing past a runner.

The PU noticed R1 crossing the infield and said the run scored before this happened. This of course wasn't when the out was made. After another 10 minutes of discussion and including the director, the run was taken off the board because the out was made before the run scored (right as R1 passed R2). The PU said that he misunderstood the argument and thought that we were discussing when he noticed R1 missing 2B on the retouch darting through the infield. What? Anyway.....

Question: I was told that once a runner passes another runner, it's a dead ball. Let's say the same situation happend as above but there was 0 out. CF makes the catch, R1 passes R2 for out number 2, is the ball dead at that point? Does the play continue?

No, the ball remains live. You are correct in that this is not a force and that if the run scores before the out, it counts. PU was wrong twice with the same thing--thinking you were discussing the missed retouch, and also thinking that a missed base appeal nullifies a run.

I would suggest that for this type of thread, post each play separately.

[mstaylor]

I added Sitch markers to make answering easier. SInce it was all the same half inning I would leave it as a single post. Now you just say."In Sitch 1......."

Sitch 1

Coach, I have it, the PU is nowhere close and not in a position to see it. I will not be talking to him.

Sitch 2

No big discussion, tell him F5 did not an unmistakable appeal. If he would like to appeal it when the ball becomes live fine. When you safe it and knucklehead tries to come out, hold up your hand and tell him no. If he still tries, tell him it will end his day if he comes. If he does, end his day.

Sitch 3

As Matt said, step and a reach, keep his protection. Anything more than that and announce obstruction. If R1 doesn't make second, award it to him.

Sitch 4

Tell the coach, no the ball was caught so no force. You properly explained the passing, your partner jumped the gun on the run. Just remember, you can never be forced backward.

Sitch 5

Again, as Matt said, the ball stays alive.

Epilogue

Talk to your partner post game and tell him when it comes to him having to award or take away runs, get together first. You both have to be on the same page with the situation before you start affecting the score.

[Richvee]

"safe"! The 3rd base coach and others in the 3rd base dugout of course let me know differently saying, "he was off the bag, he was off the bag". Coach asked for an appeal.

I'm confused....3rd base coach wanted you to call his runner out??????

[umped up]

"safe"! The 3rd base coach and others in the 3rd base dugout of course let me know differently saying, "he was off the bag, he was off the bag". Coach asked for an appeal.

I'm confused....3rd base coach wanted you to call his runner out??????

I need to do a better job proof reading. "the coach in the 3rd base dugout", which is the 3rd base coach/manager for that team. My bad.

[grayhawk]

I will only add that in Sitch 3, "nothing" isn't an option. It's either going to be interference or obstruction. Mike eluded to this, but didn't say it outright.

[umped up]

I will only add that in Sitch 3, "nothing" isn't an option. It's either going to be interference or obstruction. Mike eluded to this, but didn't say it outright.

Awesome point. Great point. I guess one or the other happend ay? :ZZZ:

[Richvee]

"safe"! The 3rd base coach and others in the 3rd base dugout of course let me know differently saying, "he was off the bag, he was off the bag". Coach asked for an appeal.

I'm confused....3rd base coach wanted you to call his runner out??????

I need to do a better job proof reading. "the coach in the 3rd base dugout", which is the 3rd base coach/manager for that team. My bad.

Figured as much. Just bustin' a little :)

[Kevin Finnerty]

Buddy, that three-minute dispute should have taken 13 seconds.

And I respect the hell out of you for repeatedly exposing your game to all of us in your effort at getting better and more polished as an umpire and game manager.

[mstaylor]

I will only add that in Sitch 3, "nothing" isn't an option. It's either going to be interference or obstruction. Mike eluded to this, but didn't say it outright.

Absolutely, nothing is not an option. Good catch.