Umpire Interference on Dropped Third Strike?

[Pops]

I received my FED Preseason Guide for 2012 and noticed a situation on p.15 under "Play 7" which discusses umpire interference. It states "The hindrance (i.e. umpire interference) may also occur while the catcher is fielding a batted ball or dropped third strike. In those situations, the play is treated the same as an attempt to prevent a stolen base and is delayed dead (2-21-2)."

This sounds to me like if a catcher is fielding a dropped third strike and the plate umpire gets in the way, you call interference and the batter-runner is out. I've never seen anything like this called. Is this just a poorly worded section, or am I reading this entirely wrong?

[johnnyg08]

Wow, I haven't thought about UI on a D3K. Wonder what that would look like?

[sdix00]

I am not aware of a penalty which allows anyone to be called out for Umpire Interference.

[johnnyg08]

If you could get an out, teams would try for it. I don't think it exists.

[JaxRolo]

I am not aware of a penalty which allows anyone to be called out for Umpire Interference.

+1

Can't happen!

[johnnyg08]

I can't even think of an example...the only thing I could think of is maybe if the umpire inadvertently hands F2 a ball instead of him chasing it?

TWP for sure.

[mstaylor]

I think they kicked that one. That would mean you call UI if you don't open the gate fast enough. I just can't believe they mean that. I can only assume they are still talking about the throw but it isn't worded well. I haven't read the Preseason Guide yet but I will try today.

[johnnyg08]

I think they kicked that one. That would mean you call UI if you don't open the gate fast enough. I just can't believe they mean that. I can only assume they are still talking about the throw but it isn't worded well. I haven't read the Preseason Guide yet but I will try today.

Now I'm excited about reading the preseason guide. I can't think of a reason how they could get UI on a play like this.

[Pops]

I received a response from our state high school association:

"The ruling in the guide is correct. If there is a dropped third strike and the plate umpire interferes with the catcher, the runner is out and all runners return to their original bases. I am glad you have never seen this before as this would be a difficult position for an umpire to be in, but the information is correct by rule."

Personally, I have had several catchers turn quickly and make contact with me, which delayed them just enough to make the batter-runner safe at first. I like to think that I'm pretty quick opening the gate, but just a slight delay by the catcher could make a difference on the play to first.

[zm1283]

What play are you interfering with when the catcher is chasing down a deflected ball on an U3K?

This is silly.

[sdix00]

I received a response from our state high school association:

"The ruling in the guide is correct. If there is a dropped third strike and the plate umpire interferes with the catcher, the runner is out and all runners return to their original bases. I am glad you have never seen this before as this would be a difficult position for an umpire to be in, but the information is correct by rule."

Personally, I have had several catchers turn quickly and make contact with me, which delayed them just enough to make the batter-runner safe at first. I like to think that I'm pretty quick opening the gate, but just a slight delay by the catcher could make a difference on the play to first.

Not arguing with you (I understand you are quoting the Association).

The BR could be called out on U3K if some event causes a dead ball. In such an event, the BR would not be able to attempt to advance on 3K and would be out.

However, I see nothing in the OP which causes a dead ball, UI or otherwise.

2-21-2 . . . It is umpire interference when he inadvertently moves so as to

hinder a catcher’s attempt to throw, or when a fair ball touches an umpire as in

5-1-1f, or thrown ball as in 5-1-1g.

In the OP, the catcher is attempting to field/glove a pitch or field/glove a batted ball, not throw. I see no way to apply the definition in 2-21-2 to the OP.

I imagine there is something I am missing. I wish I knew what it is.

For those in the know, does the pre-season guide offer new official interps, or do they just offer clarifications on things we are supposed to know anyway?

__

It occurs to me that calling UI when the PU and F2 get tangled during a batted ball (the other scenario in the OP), would be akin to calling UI when U1 and F4 get tangled.

[scrounge]

Wow, I guess I could maybe see putting the runners back, as the interference might have prevented the throw, but how can they assume the throw and play is good and justify calling the runner out? I can't imagine how livid I'd be if I was the OC and the umpire calls my guy out because he couldn't get out of the way. Bad enough putting the runner back, but getting an out?

I received a response from our state high school association:

"The ruling in the guide is correct. If there is a dropped third strike and the plate umpire interferes with the catcher, the runner is out and all runners return to their original bases. I am glad you have never seen this before as this would be a difficult position for an umpire to be in, but the information is correct by rule."

Personally, I have had several catchers turn quickly and make contact with me, which delayed them just enough to make the batter-runner safe at first. I like to think that I'm pretty quick opening the gate, but just a slight delay by the catcher could make a difference on the play to first.

[johnnyg08]

Pretty simple for me...unless it's something way out of the ordinary, I'm simply not going to call interference on myself on this type of play.

[BretMan]

Wow. Not only have I never seen this play before, but I've never seen any actual rule, case play or interpretation to support that ruling.

It's certainly not the first time that FED has thrown us a curve with an oddball ruling.

[mstaylor]

For those in the know, does the pre-season guide offer new official interps, or do they just offer clarifications on things we are supposed to know anyway?

Both.

[Triguy29]

Wouldn't it be treated the same as catchers interference, and the runners would be placed either back or where the umpire felt they would have gotten without the interference.

[johnnyg08]

I received a response from our state high school association: "The ruling in the guide is correct. If there is a dropped third strike and the plate umpire interferes with the catcher, the runner is out and all runners return to their original bases. I am glad you have never seen this before as this would be a difficult position for an umpire to be in, but the information is correct by rule." Personally, I have had several catchers turn quickly and make contact with me, which delayed them just enough to make the batter-runner safe at first. I like to think that I'm pretty quick opening the gate, but just a slight delay by the catcher could make a difference on the play to first.

This is the ruling you'll have to use if you call this on yourself in a FED game. Now that this is in there, watch for coaches to start telling their F2's to run into the umpire and try for an out.

[Pops]

To make matters even more confusing, the original article in the Pre-Season Guide on umpire interference was placed under the header of "Act of Throwing." But let's compare this to rule 3-2-3 which addresses a thrown ball unintentionally hitting an umpire: For example, on a passed ball with a runner on third coming home, F2 throws it to F1 and the ball hits the umpire. It is a live ball...no interference. So why is a droped third strike any different?

And the response I got from the state association also made it sound like any umpire interference with the catcher (not just throws) was a dead ball, batter out.

This doesn't make any sense to me.

[UMP45]

Sounds like someone is not looking at the intent of the rule.

[yawetag]

Sounds like someone is not looking at the intent of the rule.

To prevent fielders from trying to knock me out with a throw to my head, right?

[UMP45]

ROFLMAO! Remember guys FED tries to take as much judgement out of the umpires hands that they can!

[johnnyg08]

ROFLMAO! Remember guys FED tries to take as much judgement out of the umpires hands that they can!

That pretty much sums it up.

[scrounge]

I wonder if the state assoc wants to re-look at that, cause it sure sounds like a mis-interpretation from what seems like the plain text of the rule book. Perhaps it's a poorly written pre-season guide, but if the two are indeed in conflict, I would think the actual rule book would prevail.

To my admittedly novice eye, I'd think we'd start at 2-21-2: "It is umpire interference when he inadvertently moves so as to hinder a catcher's attempt to throw, or when a fair ball touches an umpire as in 5-1-1f, or thrown ball as in 5-1-1g."

So by definition, there are three situations for umpire interference. The first clearly and conclusively defines it as a throw by catcher, the other two talk about live balls in 5-1-1f and g.

Going to 5-1-1f, it says that it's a dead ball. The table says the batter is credited with a single, awarded 1B, and all other runners return to base of time of pitch unless forced to advance. So that situation isn't what we're discussing here. 5-1-1g isn't applicable here either, it's about a pitch lodging in the umpire's equipment. Again, no outs - to the contrary, runners awarded a base.

So we're left with only the first clause of the definition, an umpire interfering with a throw. I guess that could be any throw, dropped 3k or not, but it clearly says the throw, not the fielding with the ball. There seems to be no code justification for expanding it to fielding.

But even in that case, let's say that it were to be expanded. The handling of umpire interference is clearly explained by 5-1-1c: "It is a delayed dead ball when: umpire interferes with the catcher who is attempting to throw". The table then says the award or penalty is: "If runner is not put out, runners return". The reference for the award/penalty is 8-3-5, which only talks about whether the award is from time of pitch or throw, not really relevant to this situation at all.

I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence by any means by quoting the rule book in such a basic manner, but I just can't for the life of me see how there's any basis whatsoever to get an out on umpire interference. If we start with definition, it clearly only means interfering with the throw, but even if we expand it to fielding a D3K, where is there any mention of a penalty to the batter/runner? What would be the purpose of having a delayed dead ball and saying "If the runner is not put out, then return all runners"? If the B/R is out, you'd think it would be an immediate dead ball (and say that).

Am I missing something here? I'd think the preseason guide is just that - a guide. But the rule book seems clear to me, and I can't see an out in it.

I received a response from our state high school association: "The ruling in the guide is correct. If there is a dropped third strike and the plate umpire interferes with the catcher, the runner is out and all runners return to their original bases. I am glad you have never seen this before as this would be a difficult position for an umpire to be in, but the information is correct by rule." Personally, I have had several catchers turn quickly and make contact with me, which delayed them just enough to make the batter-runner safe at first. I like to think that I'm pretty quick opening the gate, but just a slight delay by the catcher could make a difference on the play to first.

This is the ruling you'll have to use if you call this on yourself in a FED game. Now that this is in there, watch for coaches to start telling their F2's to run into the umpire and try for an out.