Signal on Missed Tag

[moblue]

I had a game where r3 was coming home. The catcher caught the ball and attempted a tag a couple feet in front of home plate. He dropped the ball on contact with the fielder who went in standing up. There was no MC or any intentional attempt to knock the ball out of the fielder's glove. Apparently r3 thought he was out because he made no immediate attempt to touch home. After the catcher bent down to pick up the ball r3 realized the situation and and tagged home safely. I signaled safe at that time (first signal for me on the play). I knew I should have signaled something on the tag, but I felt that signaling safe was incorrect given the proximity of the runner to the plate. What should I have done?

[mstaylor]

No, I would have signaled the safe on the tag because the runner hadn't attempted a touch of home yet. Once he touched don't signal anything.

[Paperipper17]

No, I would have signaled the safe on the tag because the runner hadn't attempted a touch of home yet. Once he touched don't signal anything.

+1

Dropped the ball, so he isn't out...but he hasn't yet touched so he isn't safe. I've found that the simple fact you're giving no signal at all is enough of a signal to the two guys (or girls) involved that the play isn't over yet and something needs to happen.

[calablue]

+1

Dropped the ball, so he isn't out...but he hasn't yet touched so he isn't safe. I've found that the simple fact you're giving no signal at all is enough of a signal to the two guys (or girls) involved that the play isn't over yet and something needs to happen.

I totally agree with you. Not out yet, not safe yet, so no signal because the play is still active until something else takes place to end it. (like R3 actually abandoning the bases).

[mstaylor]

I don't think you are actually reading what I said correctly. I would show safe on the initial tag. A play was attempted but no tag of the base yet. This requires a call, an out was attempted away from the base. Once you show the safe on the tag, then just watch the tag of the plate. This does not require a safe signal or a point.

[UmpTTS43]

I had a game where r3 was coming home. The catcher caught the ball and attempted a tag a couple feet in front of home plate. He dropped the ball on contact with the fielder who went in standing up. There was no MC or any intentional attempt to knock the ball out of the fielder's glove. Apparently r3 thought he was out because he made no immediate attempt to touch home. After the catcher bent down to pick up the ball r3 realized the situation and and tagged home safely. I signaled safe at that time (first signal for me on the play). I knew I should have signaled something on the tag, but I felt that signaling safe was incorrect given the proximity of the runner to the plate. What should I have done?

You should have given the safe signal and said "No tag, no tag." This lets everyone know that a legal tag was not applied, not that the runner was safe at home. A safe mechanic with no verbal can be interpreted, or misinterpreted, as many things.

[Ump Rube]

At time of tag play: Signal safe, verbalize "no tag"

Upon the runner passing the plate he is assumed to have acquired it and is no longer in peril to be putout, unless by appeal.

Once R3 hits the plate, he has eliminated a logical attempt at an appeal.

[catoblue]

I had a somewhat similar no-call play at the plate Saturday. R3 coming home, Throw on the way to F2, R3 slides then F2 catches the throw. R3's foot ends up about an inch off the plate at the end of his slide (hasn't touched HP yet). F2 standing there with the ball in his mitt, not making a tag attempt, I'm standing there waiting to make a call one way or the other. R3 figured it out first and rolled his foot over onto the plate, about half a second before F2 figured it out and started to bring his glove down for a tag - I call and signal SAFE!.

So the question here, in a slightly different situation, was my no-call correct?

[JaxRolo]

I had a somewhat similar no-call play at the plate Saturday. R3 coming home, Throw on the way to F2, R3 slides then F2 catches the throw. R3's foot ends up about an inch off the plate at the end of his slide (hasn't touched HP yet). F2 standing there with the ball in his mitt, not making a tag attempt, I'm standing there waiting to make a call one way or the other. R3 figured it out first and rolled his foot over onto the plate, about half a second before F2 figured it out and started to bring his glove down for a tag - I call and signal SAFE!.

So the question here, in a slightly different situation, was my no-call correct?

I think you were correct, I would have done the same thing. Wait for something to happen. Someone is going to figure it our soon enough.

[Guest]

I don't think you are actually reading what I said correctly. I would show safe on the initial tag. A play was attempted but no tag of the base yet. This requires a call, an out was attempted away from the base. Once you show the safe on the tag, then just watch the tag of the plate. This does not require a safe signal or a point.

One of the NCAA umpiring bullitins on YouTube suggests this as being incorrect, and I agree. Exact same scenario - runner comes in standing up, tag is applied at which point the ball is dislodged. Runner passes the plate thinking he is out, umpire makes no signal which clues the runner's dugout in to yell for him to touch the plate, which he does, just before the tag. The narrator goes on to applaud PU for his mechanics.

I had a somewhat similar no-call play at the plate Saturday. R3 coming home, Throw on the way to F2, R3 slides then F2 catches the throw. R3's foot ends up about an inch off the plate at the end of his slide (hasn't touched HP yet). F2 standing there with the ball in his mitt, not making a tag attempt, I'm standing there waiting to make a call one way or the other. R3 figured it out first and rolled his foot over onto the plate, about half a second before F2 figured it out and started to bring his glove down for a tag - I call and signal SAFE!.

So the question here, in a slightly different situation, was my no-call correct?

Yes.