RAT questioning balls and stikes

[dportz]

What do you say, or how do you deal with a RAT who doesn't like your strike zone but instead of questioning you he questions his catcher????

After every pitch he doesn't like he says "Hey Johnny where was that pitch?"

I ask if he has a problem and he says "No... I am talking to my catcher, not you."

[BrianC14]

What do you say, or how do you deal with a RAT who doesn't like your strike zone but instead of questioning you he questions his catcher????

After every pitch he doesn't like he says "Hey Johnny where was that pitch?"

I ask if he has a problem and he says "No... I am talking to my catcher, not you."

He's questioning the strike zone. The bit about asking his catcher is baloney. Don't EVER ask if he "has a problem". No good can come from that.

Use this approach:

1st instance: Ignore it.

2nd instance: Acknowledge it. (Simply look over at him for 3-5 seconds).

3rd instance: Call 'Time'. Remove your mask. Do NOT walk toward him. Stay right where you are. Say to him, "Coach, this is your warning. There will be no further questioning of the strike zone. If you continue to do so, I will have no other alternative than to eject you from this game. " Replace mask. Play on.

Next instance: EJECT.

Make sure you do NOT offer any more warnings after the "3rd instance". He's already had his warning.

:shrug:

Edited May 13, 2010 by BrianC14

[Rich Ives]

What do you say, or how do you deal with a RAT who doesn't like your strike zone but instead of questioning you he questions his catcher????

After every pitch he doesn't like he says "Hey Johnny where was that pitch?"

I ask if he has a problem and he says "No... I am talking to my catcher, not you."

He's questioning it.

[jnazz]

And if the catcher is telling the coach that the pitches that you called balls are strikes, it's time to have a little chat with the catcher.

I call time and head around to do what looks like sweeping the plate, but little cleaning gets done. I have a little conversation with the catcher that only me, the catcher, and the batter know about. This works extremely well with the lower levels (approx. 16 and under). The older catchers should know better but you may use it if needed.

I say something like, "We're on the same team here. If you lie to your coach anymore, I'm gonna throw your ass out of the game! Are we on the same page?"

[mstaylor]

Definitely talking to you and needs to be shut down. He will tell you he is talking to his catcher, tell him he will desist or go home. Once you warn him, throw him if he continues.

Conversation goes like this:

You: Coach, the strike zone is not a topic of discussion.

Coach: I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to my catcher.

You: The strike zone discussion is over.

Anything else and you give him the ENOUGH!

" " he's gone.

If he shuts up but carries it further later he is gone. No further warning is needed or allowed.

Edited May 14, 2010 by mstaylor

[maninblack69]

The key to success as Brian said, ignore, acknowledge, warn and This approach seems to work pretty well. If the rat is adamant and actively arguing he'll be seeing the parking lot much sooner.

[zm1283]

I dealt with this for really the first time this spring this week. I rang a player up on a called third strike for Team A to end the inning. A's HC from the 3B coaches box chirps a bit as I walk up the 1B line and ignore him. Looking back, the pitch was probably a bit high, but nothing crazy.

Team A takes the field and in the lead off batter's at bat for Team B, there is a high pitch that isn't really that close, which I call a ball. A's HC from the dugout: "That was a strike before....that needs to go both ways". I just turned and gave him the "We're not doing that today, knock it off" without even taking my mask off. I didn't hear a word the rest of the game.

I have rarely heard even chirping about balls and strikes this spring. I do however need to shut down the coaches (1-2 of them in particular) that use F2 to question the strike zone. I generally ignore that stuff and I probably shouldn't.

[JaxRolo]

I worked a 15u Game last night. In the second inning I had F1 throw 3-4 pitches in a row right at the knees. I called them all strikes. I didnt hear any complaints but after the inning was over the OC came to me and told me that I could not change my strike zone like that. He said I didn't call those same pitches strike in the first inning.

He was civilized about it. So I let him speak for about 2 minutes then I said enough and he walked away.

[fbara]

I say something like, "We're on the same team here. If you lie to your coach anymore, I'm gonna throw your ass out of the game! Are we on the same page?"

Maybe it's just me, but I would NEVER say something remotely similar to that. That borders on threatening language from an adult to a minor. It's ok to have a talk with the catcher, but you should be able to come up with something more mature than that!

If I was the parent of that catcher I would have a few words for you after the game as well as complain about you to the association. I will also talk with my son about whether or not he was lying, but that's a separate issue.

[Stan W.]

I

there is a high pitch that isn't really that close, which I call a ball. A's HC from the dugout: "That was a strike before....that needs to go both ways". I just turned and gave him the "We're not doing that today, knock it off" without even taking my mask off. I didn't hear a word the rest of the game.

this statement is one of my hot buttons......"that needs to go both ways"........guaranteed to get a hot reaction from me.....you/we have just been accused of cheating....

and Ill shut that right down......

I will let some minor griping from the dugout pass, but this statement is isnt minor to me......

[Mike Prince]

Maybe it's just me, but I would NEVER say something remotely similar to that. That borders on threatening language from an adult to a minor. It's ok to have a talk with the catcher, but you should be able to come up with something more mature than that!

If I was the parent of that catcher I would have a few words for you after the game as well as complain about you to the association. I will also talk with my son about whether or not he was lying, but that's a separate issue.

Agree, I would probably at most tell him only one of us is calling balls and strikes here, let's play ball and leave it at that. Any further dialogue is between me and the coach asking the questions and not many words will be spoken.

[Rich Ives]

I say something like, "We're on the same team here. If you lie to your coach anymore, I'm gonna throw your ass out of the game! Are we on the same page?"

And if he says "It's not a lie." Then what?

[BrianC14]

I worked a 15u Game last night. In the second inning I had F1 throw 3-4 pitches in a row right at the knees. I called them all strikes. I didnt hear any complaints but after the inning was over the OC came to me and told me that I could not change my strike zone like that. He said I didn't call those same pitches strike in the first inning.

He was civilized about it. So I let him speak for about 2 minutes then I said enough and he walked away.

TWO MINUTES?!?

That's roughly 1 minute and 58 seconds too long. It doesn't matter how "civilized" he is. A coach doesn't get to question balls & strikes simply because he's kissed the Blarney Stone.

By the way, how long do your games last when you allow this much time (at least) to pass between innings? :bang:

[BrianC14]

And if the catcher is telling the coach that the pitches that you called balls are strikes, it's time to have a little chat with the catcher.

I call time and head around to do what looks like sweeping the plate, but little cleaning gets done. I have a little conversation with the catcher that only me, the catcher, and the batter know about. This works extremely well with the lower levels (approx. 16 and under). The older catchers should know better but you may use it if needed.

I say something like, "We're on the same team here. If you lie to your coach anymore, I'm gonna throw your ass out of the game! Are we on the same page?"

Wow. I can barely begin to tell you how wrong that approach is.

1) No, you are NOT on the same "team". Where the heck did you ever get that idea?

2) You just accused this kid of being a liar. BAD idea.

3) The rest of it is empty nonsense. You're using what some would categorize as foul language, and in what can easily be described as threatening.

Please - drop this bad routine starting today. :bang:

[JaxRolo]

TWO MINUTES?!?

That's roughly 1 minute and 58 seconds too long. It doesn't matter how "civilized" he is. A coach doesn't get to question balls & strikes simply because he's kissed the Blarney Stone.

By the way, how long do your games last when you allow this much time (at least) to pass between innings?

Well maybe it wasn't 2 minutes it was just the time it took the pitcher to do his 5 warmups.

I know this this coach. Done several games for him and first time he has ever said anything negative to me. To his credit he came to me after the game and apologized.

Its all good I didn't have a problem with it.

[BrianC14]

Well maybe it wasn't 2 minutes it was just the time it took the pitcher to do his 5 warmups.

I know this this coach. Done several games for him and first time he has ever said anything negative to me. To his credit he came to me after the game and apologized.

Its all good I didn't have a problem with it.

Well that's all well and good that you "know" that coach. So you didn't have a problem with it... but what about the umpire that works his next game?

You don't let coaches argue balls & strikes. So it's "only" a minute? That's an eternity! It isn't just a matter of whether it's a problem for you. Consider also that the other coach is watching, and by now, he's likely figured that questioning the strike zone is fair game, since you gave Coach A so much latitude.

Edited May 14, 2010 by BrianC14

[cardinalfan]

And if the catcher is telling the coach that the pitches that you called balls are strikes, it's time to have a little chat with the catcher.

I call time and head around to do what looks like sweeping the plate, but little cleaning gets done. I have a little conversation with the catcher that only me, the catcher, and the batter know about. This works extremely well with the lower levels (approx. 16 and under). The older catchers should know better but you may use it if needed.

I say something like, "We're on the same team here. If you lie to your coach anymore, I'm gonna throw your ass out of the game! Are we on the same page?"

No way I'd say that to a catcher at any level. If he repeats that to a coach who is already unhappy with you, things are going to escalate.

I use the 4-step method already mentioned. It usually doesn't get past step 2. When I give them the stare, they either hush or say something to me, which I can put a stop to.

What amazes me is that coaches actually use this technique. When I coached, there were times when I said, "That's a good place to miss" or "Not a bad spot" or "Hey, that's where we wanted that pitch", etc. that lets everybody know I thought it was close, but doesn't make the umpire look bad.

I remember one time in particular where a D2 coach asked his catcher where the pitch was. F2 said "Out" and put his hands about 8-10 inches apart. Then he said, "Blue, remember me when I come up to hit." The kid was smarter than his coach!

[DirtyDawg]

I remember one time in particular where a D2 coach asked his catcher where the pitch was. F2 said "Out" and put his hands about 8-10 inches apart. Then he said, "Blue, remember me when I come up to hit." The kid was smarter than his coach!

That's funny.....I may have to teach my girls that one!!

[PeteBooth]

And if the catcher is telling the coach that the pitches that you called balls are strikes, it's time to have a little chat with the catcher.

I call time and head around to do what looks like sweeping the plate, but little cleaning gets done. I have a little conversation with the catcher that only me, the catcher, and the batter know about. This works extremely well with the lower levels (approx. 16 and under). The older catchers should know better but you may use it if needed.

I say something like, "We're on the same team here. If you lie to your coach anymore, I'm gonna throw your ass out of the game! Are we on the same page?

"

Hey if it works for you ok but in General I recommend NOT following this advice. First and foremost as umpires we do not Curse no matter how minor. Also, we do not threaten.

It's the COACH who you deal with NOT F2. F2 is in a precarious position when his coach is constantly asking him where the pitches are.

I like Brian's advice and I will add one more thing that you can do. After the second time the coach asks F2 where the pitch was.

1. Call TIME

2. Take out your line-up card

3. Request to speak to the coach about a line-up issue

4. Now it's just you and the coach away from everybody and that's where you say something like Coach We will NOT be doing this all game long

By doing the aforementioned you did not show the coach up or yell anything at him. You gave him respect but it's time to move on and NO MORE comments about the zone.

If continued then you Eject.

IMO, Do NOT say anything to F2.

Pete Booth

[jjb]

I worked a Co-Ed, SP Softball (we call it the Pitch and Giggle League) game a couple years ago. A guy came up to bat and here was the conversation:

1st Pitch: "BALL"

2nd pitch: "STRIKE" "One and One!"

(Batter): "Blue, that's in the same place as the first one"

Me: (looking over the plate) You know, you're absolutely right: "Oh and TWO!"

My partner fell over....

[DirtyDawg]

I love it!! Bet he crapped his pants when you said that.

[Spoonerstreet]

Hey, everyone...new to the forums, and I had one this weekend that was pretty good..I was done with my 8U game, waiting for the next one to start. The 8U field is right next to the 14U field, and I was talking with the UIC when one of the mothers from a 14U team came and asked to speak with her (the UIC). The mother then asked the UIC to do something about the umpire behind the plate, because "the strikes he is calling for them, he is calling them balls for us". I guess she wanted the UIC to go down there, stop the game, and tell the guy to stop being such a meanie and call more strikes for the other team.

The best part was the UIC's response:

I would recommend that your pitcher throw more strikes.

Of course, this was said after the mom went back to her position in the stands, but me and the rest of the umpires had a good solid laugh at that one.

Anyway, thanks for having me and I look forward to more conversations in the future.

[maninblack69]

Welcome to the forums Spooner. There's a lot of great guys and stuff on here. Enjoy! :WTF

[mstaylor]

Welcome to the site, don't forget to go to the intro section and let us know a little about you.

[MCLEOD36]

Jax.

I am with Bri on this one, that should be about a 10 to 15 sec conversation. Look him in the eye after that and just say enough....