just drill him in the back next time!

[1dumbquestion]

did a LL minor game recently, batter bunts, F2 throws inside to F3 who misses the ball and it goes to right field. batter ends up on 2b. BR left foot was about on the foul line but he didn't come close to the ball as the throw was several feet inside. D coach yells from the dugout "just drill him in the back next time". I thought about talking to him between innings but did not. what should have I done. Thanks, 1

[DirtyDawg]

Warn him that if this happens he'll be hearing about the rest of the game from his kid.

[jjb]

No warning. You just heard an adult instruct a child to deliberately injure another child. Let's say it happens: the catcher drills him in the back of the neck, and the kid's injured. The catcher's response? "My coach told me to". You knew it was going to happen, and you let him do it. See where I'm going?

We had this a lot with the "Billy, if he's your way, just run him over" theory of baserunning. Boom, coach is gone, period, full stop. We tell the runner that if he does it, he's gone too. We don't hear that very much any more...

[JaxRolo]

did a LL minor game recently, batter bunts, F2 throws inside to F3 who misses the ball and it goes to right field. batter ends up on 2b. BR left foot was about on the foul line but he didn't come close to the ball as the throw was several feet inside. D coach yells from the dugout "just drill him in the back next time". I thought about talking to him between innings but did not. what should have I done. Thanks, 1

You have to also look at why it was a bad throw. Was it because the runner was in the way? If it is then it could be INT on the runner.

[DirtyDawg]

You have to also look at why it was a bad throw. Was it because the runner was in the way? If it is then it could be INT on the runner.

I thought this, too, at first. Then I re-read the OP. It stated that the players foot was on the line. I have been taught, as long as their foot is touching the line, they are to be considered within the runner's lane.

[DirtyDawg]

No warning. You just heard an adult instruct a child to deliberately injure another child. Let's say it happens: the catcher drills him in the back of the neck, and the kid's injured. The catcher's response? "My coach told me to". You knew it was going to happen, and you let him do it. See where I'm going?

We had this a lot with the "Billy, if he's your way, just run him over" theory of baserunning. Boom, coach is gone, period, full stop. We tell the runner that if he does it, he's gone too. We don't hear that very much any more...

It really won't matter unless you make a public statement to the coach and players, anyways. The coach has already told the kid what to do, so unless you make sure the kid knows that what the coach told him is wrong, he's still going to do it.

[JaxRolo]

I thought this, too, at first. Then I re-read the OP. It stated that the players foot was on the line. I have been taught, as long as their foot is touching the line, they are to be considered within the runner's lane.

Is the Line considered inside or outside the lane? I am asking because I am not sure and want to get the call correct.

Batter is out when:

he runs outside the three-foot running lane (last half of the distance from

home plate to first base), while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first

base; or

1. This infraction is ignored if it is to avoid a fielder who is attempting to

field the batted ball or if the act does not interfere with a fielder or a

throw.

2. The batter runner is considered outside the running lane lines if either

foot is outside either line.

[jjb]

It really won't matter unless you make a public statement to the coach and players, anyways. The coach has already told the kid what to do, so unless you make sure the kid knows that what the coach told him is wrong, he's still going to do it.

IMHO, simply having the coach tell the catcher not to do it, allows for the "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" factor from the coach. What better way to send the message to have the catcher see the coach head for the parking lot for simply suggesting he throw at someone?

[DirtyDawg]

Is the Line considered inside or outside the lane? I am asking because I am not sure and want to get the call correct.

The way I was taught is that the line is considered inside the lines. I guess this can be traced back to the batters box issue. If a batter hits the ball while stepping on the front line, he is still supposed to be declared in the box.

[DirtyDawg]

IMHO, simply having the coach tell the catcher not to do it, allows for the "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" factor from the coach. What better way to send the message to have the catcher see the coach head for the parking lot for simply suggesting he throw at someone?

No, I agree with what you are saying, but I am saying that you need to make sure everyone knows why he is going to the parking lot. If you just eject the coach without letting the young kid know why you just ejected the coach, then the kid still drills him, not knowing the reason you ejected the coach was for what he said to the catcher originally, then who is really to blame?

[jjb]

We're on the same page: I'd toss the coach, and then tell the catcher why I did it, and he's next if it happens.

[DirtyDawg]

Sounds like it! Toss or not, just as long as you make sure the catcher knows he's gone if he does it.

[carolinablue]

OK, I thought to have a running lane violation in LL ( OBR ), that interference has to actually occur, thus the ball would need to actually hit the runner. So if this is true, then I would have to ask that did the coach really instruct the kid wrong except that he said it openly for all to hear. Isn't this why FED wants it called regardless of the throw to discourage this.

For a coach to say this seems bad, but we didn't write the rules, nor did he. I also acknowledge that the age factor could be a part of this as well.

[DirtyDawg]

OK, I thought to have a running lane violation in LL ( OBR ), that interference has to actually occur, thus the ball would need to actually hit the runner. So if this is true, then I would have to ask that did the coach really instruct the kid wrong except that he said it openly for all to hear. Isn't this why FED wants it called regardless of the throw to discourage this.

For a coach to say this seems bad, but we didn't write the rules, nor did he. I also acknowledge that the age factor could be a part of this as well.

That I cannot answer. I'm no OBR guy.

[jjb]

In OBR, you have to have a "quality throw": one that F3 can reasonably glove for the out. You don't necessarily have to have contact, but it's what normally happens. So, if the catcher throws it into RF, you've got nothing.

In FED, you get to play "woulda, coulda shoulda", as in "did the catcher throw it wild so as not to drill the BR?"

[JaxRolo]

In OBR, you have to have a "quality throw": one that F3 can reasonably glove for the out. You don't necessarily have to have contact, but it's what normally happens. So, if the catcher throws it into RF, you've got nothing.

In FED, you get to play "woulda, coulda shoulda", as in "did the catcher throw it wild so as not to drill the BR?"

I hate to admit it but I kinda like the FED rule on this one. :WTF

[BrianC14]

In OBR, you have to have a "quality throw": one that F3 can reasonably glove for the out. You don't necessarily have to have contact, but it's what normally happens. So, if the catcher throws it into RF, you've got nothing.

In FED, you get to play "woulda, coulda shoulda", as in "did the catcher throw it wild so as not to drill the BR?"

No.

In FED, the interpretation reads that the quality of the throw is not to be considered.

I know it sounds crazy, but that is the FED interpretation.

[jjb]

Yeah, Brian, that's what I said. FED takes the quality out of it. You don't have to judge quality of the throw, but if the actions of the baserunner (being out of the lane), caused the catcher to alter the throw, you've still got a violation.

[kwiggie]

D coach yells from the dugout "just drill him in the back next time".

This is "Men's League" language! Definately not LLPonyCR etc. language. Toss him, or talk to him, I am not sure but I know this... if this is "barked" out by a manager during one of my Hometalent (men's league) games, I am definatly in for a long night of... plunkings, hard tags, and spike filled dp break-ups!

[yawetag]

Is the Line considered inside or outside the lane? I am asking because I am not sure and want to get the call correct.

The line is part of the running lane.

From this year's NFHS Preseason Guide (page 2): "If the batter-runner is on the lines, he is considered to be in the lane."

However, if his right foot is on the left line, he's out of the box.

[catoblue]

Is the Line considered inside or outside the lane? I am asking because I am not sure and want to get the call correct.

Batter is out when:

he runs outside the three-foot running lane (last half of the distance from

home plate to first base), while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first

base; or

1. This infraction is ignored if it is to avoid a fielder who is attempting to

field the batted ball or if the act does not interfere with a fielder or a

throw.

2. The batter runner is considered outside the running lane lines if either

foot is outside either line.

The bold part is your answer. It doesn't say "on or outside either line", it says "outside either line".

To the OP - in a LL Minors game that I'm calling, Manager is done for the day, and F2 will be informed that if he does what coach said, he'll be done too.

[1dumbquestion]

Thank you all for the feedback. I now know not doing anything on the field was not the way to handle it. I have sent the coach (he is also our local LL board president) an email about his conduct at that game and future games. if there is a next time his day will be over. Thanks again, 1

[DirtyDawg]

You gotta be shattin me? LL board president? I'm finding a new league!!

[Dragon29]

In OBR, you have to have a "quality throw": one that F3 can reasonably glove for the out. You don't necessarily have to have contact, but it's what normally happens. So, if the catcher throws it into RF, you've got nothing.

I disagree - more often than not when I've seen this, the ball ends up in RF or foul territory down the 1BL because F2 throws a little wide trying to avoid the BR who's in fair territory, and F3 doesn't come off the bag to get the ball. If the throw is close, but simply missed by F3 because of the BR's position, I'm calling INT here.

Don't get me wrong - If F2 sails the ball into RF I'm not calling anything; and, usually, if F3 comes off the bag to get the throw they get the Out anyway.

Had one last night where the BR was about 50/50 in fair territory on a 'swinging bunt'; F2 sailed the ball into RF (landed probably 30-35' beyond 1B) and then begged me to call INT - No way.