The Injury Timeout

[grayhawk]

This may be more of a game management topic, than a pure mechanic, so not sure if this is the right forum, but here goes.

Injuries are a part of the game, and at least minor ones seem to happen pretty frequently. When there is an injury, and the coach asks to tend to his player, we allow time out and are supposed to monitor this conference to ensure that it's about the injury. Of course, coaches love to try to get a "free one" by making sure that his player is okay, but then starting to talk strategy.

When this happens, do you:

A. Not worry about it and let it go.

B. Warn him if he starts coaching during an injury timout that it will count as a charged conference.

C. Let him do his thing, and then inform him that you have to charge him for a conference.

Just curous to know how you folks like to handle it.

[UmpJM]

grayhawk,

I go with "B".

JM

[JaxRolo]

B - Don't grab the wrong end of the stick

[Guest]

Whenever a player goes down, at least one umpire should always be eavesdropping on the conversation.

Keep the pitcher on the mound, especially if he is not the injured player, and keep the coach away from the mound (unless obviously its his pitcher that is hurt).

If a discussion with an injured player turns to strategy, tell the coach "Well Mike, since you're talking about strategy, I take it we are ready to resume the game. Here we go," or something along those lines.

If this happens with the pitcher, tell the coach "Mike, if you do not leave the mound right now, I will be forced to count this as a trip to the mound," or (again) something along those lines. Don't just stand there and wait until he goes to leave and then nail him for it. This responsibility belongs to the plate umpire, and the plate umpire alone, unless you are in a situation where you have a team who speaks a foreign language and one of the base umpires is more fluent in said language than the PU. Yes it has happened before and yes, I have nailed a team for trying to communicate strategy to the pitcher during an injury visit in a language other than English.

I know FED has different conference rules than OBR, which of course are useless to me, so I don't tend to eavesdrop as closely when it is a fielder that gets hurt, as long as the coach stays away from the pitcher and the mound, because I'm not really concerned with whats being said.

Finally, when returning to position, after the coach has progressed a reasonable distance away from the injured player, be sure to indicate to the opposing dugout and press box if applicable, whether or not you are waving off the trip.

[UmpTTS43]

Dont warn or tell skip the conference is over. You will come off as confrontational. Simply tell skip that if he discusses strategy you will have to charge him a visit.

[mstaylor]

When he starts to talk strategy interrupt him and ask if the player is OK. If he says yes, then tell him,"Let's go!" If he wishes to equivocate, then tell him to pull him or go to the dugout.

[Umpire in Chief]

B- Nip it in the bud ASAP, redirect the coach if you hear him talking strategy.

[UmpJM]

As ump 24 says, monitor the situation and firmly inform the coach if he starts to cross the line.

As UmpTT says, don't be a dick about it.

"B".

JM

[grayhawk]

Great stuff guys - thanks for the responses. I posted this thread because I faced this situation a few weeks ago in a tournament and and handled it the "wrong" way. Here's what happened:

13U AAU tournament. I am BU. F1 and F5 collide in foul territory going for a pop up between home and 3B. F5 is OK, but F1 is a little shaken up. DC asks for time and it's granted by PU. Coach helps him up and starts walking him back to the mound. PU stays at his position and I decide to meet them at the mound to monitor. As this is happening, the rest of the infield heads to the mound as well. Coach is asking F1 how he is doing, can he stay in the game, etc. F1 assures him that he is alright. Coach then tells him to throw strikes and then starts talking to F4 about the current situation with the base runners. As the meeting breaks up, I tell the coach that I have to charge him for a visit. He was pissed, but he brought an attitude even before the start of the game, so I didn't really think much of it at the time.

After the game, I was thinking that I should have handled it differently. In retrospect, I think the following were the problems with this situation:

1. Keep the injury timout where the player went down. Monitor the meeting there and don't allow it to progress to the mound.

2. Don't allow the rest of the infield to head to the mound.

3. Warn the coach once the conversation moved away from the injury that further discussion would result in a charged conference.

Not sure if PU or I should have monitored the injury timeout. I was in B at the time of the collision. Thoughts on this?

[mstaylor]

Watch the pros, they go straight to the player and monitor the conversation. Again, once you think he is switching from injury to coaching, ask him if the player is Ok. If yes then let's play, if no then pull him. The conversation need not continue. It is really no different than a manager visiting his pitcher. I come out and ask if he is sticking with him. If yes, let's go, if no then pull him. There is a difference between matter of fact and being a jerk.

[UmpTTS43]

Great stuff guys - thanks for the responses. I posted this thread because I faced this situation a few weeks ago in a tournament and and handled it the "wrong" way. Here's what happened:

13U AAU tournament. I am BU. F1 and F5 collide in foul territory going for a pop up between home and 3B. F5 is OK, but F1 is a little shaken up. DC asks for time and it's granted by PU. Coach helps him up and starts walking him back to the mound. PU stays at his position and I decide to meet them at the mound to monitor. As this is happening, the rest of the infield heads to the mound as well. Coach is asking F1 how he is doing, can he stay in the game, etc. F1 assures him that he is alright. Coach then tells him to throw strikes and then starts talking to F4 about the current situation with the base runners. As the meeting breaks up, I tell the coach that I have to charge him for a visit. He was pissed, but he brought an attitude even before the start of the game, so I didn't really think much of it at the time.

After the game, I was thinking that I should have handled it differently. In retrospect, I think the following were the problems with this situation:

1. Keep the injury timout where the player went down. Monitor the meeting there and don't allow it to progress to the mound.

2. Don't allow the rest of the infield to head to the mound.

3. Warn the coach once the conversation moved away from the injury that further discussion would result in a charged conference.

Not sure if PU or I should have monitored the injury timeout. I was in B at the time of the collision. Thoughts on this?

1. You have no business determining where the meeting should or should not be held. Maybe F1 needs to pitch a ball or two to see if he can continue.

2. Again, no business telling team what to do. You don't know the reason players are coming in.

3. Don't warn, just inform. As soon as strategy talk starts, "Skip, if you continue to talk strategy, I'm going to charge you a conference."

4. This should be PU's job. He is in charge of the battery.

[mstaylor]

Great stuff guys - thanks for the responses. I posted this thread because I faced this situation a few weeks ago in a tournament and and handled it the "wrong" way. Here's what happened:

13U AAU tournament. I am BU. F1 and F5 collide in foul territory going for a pop up between home and 3B. F5 is OK, but F1 is a little shaken up. DC asks for time and it's granted by PU. Coach helps him up and starts walking him back to the mound. PU stays at his position and I decide to meet them at the mound to monitor. As this is happening, the rest of the infield heads to the mound as well. Coach is asking F1 how he is doing, can he stay in the game, etc. F1 assures him that he is alright. Coach then tells him to throw strikes and then starts talking to F4 about the current situation with the base runners. As the meeting breaks up, I tell the coach that I have to charge him for a visit. He was pissed, but he brought an attitude even before the start of the game, so I didn't really think much of it at the time.

After the game, I was thinking that I should have handled it differently. In retrospect, I think the following were the problems with this situation:

1. Keep the injury timout where the player went down. Monitor the meeting there and don't allow it to progress to the mound.

2. Don't allow the rest of the infield to head to the mound.

3. Warn the coach once the conversation moved away from the injury that further discussion would result in a charged conference.

Not sure if PU or I should have monitored the injury timeout. I was in B at the time of the collision. Thoughts on this?

1. You have no business determining where the meeting should or should not be held. Maybe F1 needs to pitch a ball or two to see if he can continue.

2. Again, no business telling team what to do. You don't know the reason players are coming in.

3. Don't warn, just inform. As soon as strategy talk starts, "Skip, if you continue to talk strategy, I'm going to charge you a conference."

4. This should be PU's job. He is in charge of the battery..

I agree, I read 1 too fast, I don't care if they walk back to the mound, plus the pitcher may need a couple of pitches. I also agree the PU should come out imediately on the injury. There really is no need for the infield to come to the mound.I prefer to leave the whole stategy discussion out of it, prefering to just cut it off by asking if he is staying or going. If the manager chooses to ignore my warning then we have the discussion of leave or have a visit charged.

[grayhawk]

Great stuff guys - thanks for the responses. I posted this thread because I faced this situation a few weeks ago in a tournament and and handled it the "wrong" way. Here's what happened:

13U AAU tournament. I am BU. F1 and F5 collide in foul territory going for a pop up between home and 3B. F5 is OK, but F1 is a little shaken up. DC asks for time and it's granted by PU. Coach helps him up and starts walking him back to the mound. PU stays at his position and I decide to meet them at the mound to monitor. As this is happening, the rest of the infield heads to the mound as well. Coach is asking F1 how he is doing, can he stay in the game, etc. F1 assures him that he is alright. Coach then tells him to throw strikes and then starts talking to F4 about the current situation with the base runners. As the meeting breaks up, I tell the coach that I have to charge him for a visit. He was pissed, but he brought an attitude even before the start of the game, so I didn't really think much of it at the time.

After the game, I was thinking that I should have handled it differently. In retrospect, I think the following were the problems with this situation:

1. Keep the injury timout where the player went down. Monitor the meeting there and don't allow it to progress to the mound.

2. Don't allow the rest of the infield to head to the mound.

3. Warn the coach once the conversation moved away from the injury that further discussion would result in a charged conference.

Not sure if PU or I should have monitored the injury timeout. I was in B at the time of the collision. Thoughts on this?

1. You have no business determining where the meeting should or should not be held. Maybe F1 needs to pitch a ball or two to see if he can continue.

2. Again, no business telling team what to do. You don't know the reason players are coming in.

3. Don't warn, just inform. As soon as strategy talk starts, "Skip, if you continue to talk strategy, I'm going to charge you a conference."

4. This should be PU's job. He is in charge of the battery.

1. Sounds good - I'll keep this in mind.

2. Don't agree. They have no business coming to the mound in an injury situation, and it is my business to keep the game going. If the coach takes exception and tells his players to come to the mound, then I would let him know that I will have to count it as a trip.

3. Semantics. Even your example could be considered a warning. "If you, then I'm..." If you are referring to tone, then I agree. Didn't mean it to sound like I take a negative tone. Just matter of fact.

4. That's what I thought too. Question is, if he doesn't monitor, then what do you do? Let it go, do it yourself, or try to discreetly communicate with him to get him to monitor?

[BigUmp56]

2. Don't agree. They have no business coming to the mound in an injury situation, and it is my business to keep the game going. If the coach takes exception and tells his players to come to the mound, then I would let him know that I will have to count it as a trip.

If the team coming into the mound area get's in the way of attending to the player adequately, then I agree with you to keep them away. This is from a first aide point of view, not game management.

But if they're coming to the mound to make sure their teammate and friend is going to be alright, and they don't interfere with the efforts to treat the player, then let it alone. We have no business telling a team what to do when time is out *provided* their actions aren't going to interfere with the game. It only takes a few seconds to get them back to their positions when the pitcher is ready to go again, and you're more than likely going to be giving him a few warm up pitches anyway. Don't pick up the smelly end of the stick here.

Tim.

[grayhawk]

2. Don't agree. They have no business coming to the mound in an injury situation, and it is my business to keep the game going. If the coach takes exception and tells his players to come to the mound, then I would let him know that I will have to count it as a trip.

If the team coming into the mound area get's in the way of attending to the player adequately, then I agree with you to keep them away. This is from a first aide point of view, not game management.

But if they're coming to the mound to make sure their teammate and friend is going to be alright, and they don't interfere with the efforts to treat the player, then let it alone. We have no business telling a team what to do when time is out *provided* their actions aren't going to interfere with the game. It only takes a few seconds to get them back to their positions when the pitcher is ready to go again, and you're more than likely going to be giving him a few warm up pitches anyway. Don't pick up the smelly end of the stick here.

Tim.

Interesting that another injury situation happened this weekend where a couple of players came over to see how their teammate was doing. I am standing there with the coach and the injured player (F3 in this case) and F1 and F4 came over and a couple of others were headed there. After a couple of seconds, I just asked the players to give him some room and then the coach said the same. They went back to their positions and the player was removed from the game. The thing is, I could tell that in this case, the coach was there genuinely to attend to his player, whereas in my previous example, I could tell that the coach was going to use the injury to try to get a free trip. I guess you just have to read the situation and act accordingly.