call it like you don't see it?

[th3]

do you ever call it if you don't see it? I had a little league game this weekend solo. Little foul pop a few feet up 3BL...catcher takes a few steps, dives, rolls over and comes up with ball sno-coned in his mitt..i called the out and, based on the reaction of the 3rd base coach who i know well and trust, missed the ball hitting the ground. My question is - do you ever call them when you don't actually see it or do you make your best "guess" on a play like that?

[yawetag]

Working solo, you're going to have to call it. Unfortunately, this is one where you have to use your instincts because you didn't have a chance to see it.

[semper_fi_72]

Process all information you observe during the play and make the call.

That is why timing is so important.

[JaxRolo]

I had a very similar play in foul territory. Pop up to F5. He dove for it and I had a catch. A trusted 3b coach said it hit the ground. I asked the player and he confirmed that it hit the ground. I changed my call.

[th3]

jax..i asked the player a few innings later and he said he caught it

[MPLSMatt]

When working solo, you have to call what you see. Are you going to tell the defensive coach "well, the 3rd base coach acted like it hit the ground, so it's no catch." I try to never lie or make anything up to coaches so I'd feel much more comfortable saying "he got his glove in position and came up with the ball and I couldn't see anything else as his body screened me out." His coach may not like it but what do you do???

[Stan W.]

when you are working solo, you got to call what you see............you had a pop up, a dive and a ball in the glove.......and call the out...you didnt see it hit the ground.....you cant call it "no catch" if you dont see it hit the ground......use everything you have available and make a call.....and move on without feeling too bad.....

Here is a couple solo stories.......fly ball center field.....I come up and the have the center fielder make a diving catch.....fans on the sidelines have a trap.......only my opinion counts....its an out....now and forever....(who am I goin to appeal to....?)

bases loaded... trouble fly ball to left....goes in as a double.....DC wants to appeal runner missing first........ ..sorry....

[yawetag]

I try to never lie or make anything up to coaches so I'd feel much more comfortable saying "he got his glove in position and came up with the ball and I couldn't see anything else as his body screened me out." His coach may not like it but what do you do???

I like "In my judgement..." You're never telling a lie after that statement. So, "In my judgement, coach, he made the catch."

[ukce1861]

when you are working solo, you got to call what you see............you had a pop up, a dive and a ball in the glove.......and call the out...you didnt see it hit the ground.....you cant call it "no catch" if you dont see it hit the ground......use everything you have available and make a call.....and move on without feeling too bad.....

Here is a couple solo stories.......fly ball center field.....I come up and the have the center fielder make a diving catch.....fans on the sidelines have a trap.......only my opinion counts....its an out....now and forever....(who am I goin to appeal to....?)

bases loaded... trouble fly ball to left....goes in as a double.....DC wants to appeal runner missing first........ ..sorry....

I always tell them at the plate meeting that I'll consult with myself and let them know... Most of them seem to get it. I did have one check swing - I knew both the coaches very well and the DM joked, "can't you get help?" Without missing a beat, I pointed at the 3 base coach and said, "Did he go?" Surprisingly, he agreed with the no swing call...

[PeteBooth]

do you ever call it if you don't see it? I had a little league game this weekend solo. Little foul pop a few feet up 3BL...catcher takes a few steps, dives, rolls over and comes up with ball sno-coned in his mitt..i called the out and, based on the reaction of the 3rd base coach who i know well and trust, missed the ball hitting the ground. My question is - do you ever call them when you don't actually see it or do you make your best "guess" on a play like that?

Whether you are solo or work 4 person you will have calls in which you do not actually see it.

In 2/3 or 4 man hopefully your partners were watching but the point is there will be that certain situation in which you are NOT certain.

What to do?

Examine the evidence. This happened to me 2 weeks ago in a night game. It was foggy and even though the field had lights the field is not lit-up like Yankee Stadium etc.

A player hit a shot to center field and I did not see if the ball went over the fence in flight or bounced against the fence. I did not make a call but looked at F8. I saw F8 climb over the fence which gave me the "evidence" I needed meaning the ball went over the fence in flight and then I gave the HR signal.

Therefore, if you are NOT sure at the call examine the evidence.

If there is NO evidence then you call what you saw or if you didn't see something make the call on that basis.

In your case if you didn't see the ball come out you make the out call. if the coach questions it you simply say "skip I saw a catch plain and simple" if you "kick" it you "kick it" it will not be the first or last time.

FWIW: rely on your own insticts rather than a coach. The coach is looking out for his team.

The main problem is tell this league to "man-up" and hire 2 officials.

Pete Booth

[Guest]

when you are working solo, you got to call what you see............you had a pop up, a dive and a ball in the glove.......and call the out...you didnt see it hit the ground.....you cant call it "no catch" if you dont see it hit the ground......use everything you have available and make a call.....and move on without feeling too bad.....

Here is a couple solo stories.......fly ball center field.....I come up and the have the center fielder make a diving catch.....fans on the sidelines have a trap.......only my opinion counts....its an out....now and forever....(who am I goin to appeal to....?)

bases loaded... trouble fly ball to left....goes in as a double.....DC wants to appeal runner missing first........ ..sorry....

I always tell them at the plate meeting that I'll consult with myself and let them know... Most of them seem to get it. I did have one check swing - I knew both the coaches very well and the DM joked, "can't you get help?" Without missing a beat, I pointed at the 3 base coach and said, "Did he go?" Surprisingly, he agreed with the no swing call...

Yesterday, due to traffic issues, I had to start a 21U AAA game by myself, and it was my third plate of the day (scheduled for bases, but again...traffic!!)

In the first inning and on the second batter, he checked his swing on the 1-2 pitch. The catcher, instinctively pointed in the direction of BU (who wasn't there yet).

I stepped out, pointed, said "Chris, did he go?", ran three feet in the direction I pointed, turned around to face the plate, replied "Chris, no he didn't" with the corresponding mechanic. It was met by a whole bunch of laughter from everyone on the field and a round of applause from the fans.

Digressing though, as you work more and more games, you learn exactly what evidence to look for. For instance, on an alleged foul ball off the batters foot, two years ago, I would have never thought to look at the spin of the ball after it allegedly hits his foot (assuming you don't see it happen and that your partner makes no call). The other one that's good to look for is on a swipe tag play, typically on the bases, if the fielder misses a tag, he'll dive back at the guy.

[th3]

do you ever call it if you don't see it? I had a little league game this weekend solo. Little foul pop a few feet up 3BL...catcher takes a few steps, dives, rolls over and comes up with ball sno-coned in his mitt..i called the out and, based on the reaction of the 3rd base coach who i know well and trust, missed the ball hitting the ground. My question is - do you ever call them when you don't actually see it or do you make your best "guess" on a play like that?

Whether you are solo or work 4 person you will have calls in which you do not actually see it.

In 2/3 or 4 man hopefully your partners were watching but the point is there will be that certain situation in which you are NOT certain.

What to do?

Examine the evidence. This happened to me 2 weeks ago in a night game. It was foggy and even though the field had lights the field is not lit-up like Yankee Stadium etc.

A player hit a shot to center field and I did not see if the ball went over the fence in flight or bounced against the fence. I did not make a call but looked at F8. I saw F8 climb over the fence which gave me the "evidence" I needed meaning the ball went over the fence in flight and then I gave the HR signal.

Therefore, if you are NOT sure at the call examine the evidence.

If there is NO evidence then you call what you saw or if you didn't see something make the call on that basis.

In your case if you didn't see the ball come out you make the out call. if the coach questions it you simply say "skip I saw a catch plain and simple" if you "kick" it you "kick it" it will not be the first or last time.

FWIW: rely on your own insticts rather than a coach. The coach is looking out for his team.

The main problem is tell this league to "man-up" and hire 2 officials.

Pete Booth

unless the base umpire was positioned in foul territory about 1/3 way up the 3BL he would not have seen it!

[soapbox]

ump24, I had a similar incident but in a solo LL Majors. Kid checks his swing and F2 asks me to get help, so I point to the first base coach and ask did he go, I got the no he didn't. It was all in fun and we got a chuckle. F2 later realized that B1 could have swung 6 times and was getting no he didn't. Sometimes it should just be loose and fun. Especially at the lower levels. Btw, the 1B Coach was a 1st round draft pick in MLB many moons ago so all got the situation quite well.

[wek29]

Had a night of close calls last night on the bases. Saw all sorts of ways not to make a tag...glove stuck in the dirt, late tags etc. I was really hustling as this team had just had a BU that just would not move to get in position. Of course, late in the game I have a kid stealing 2nd and I am in great postion, but the throw was off and puts the runner's body between me and the tag. I see no evidence that the tag was missed, no retag attempt so I bang the runner out. Up he comes, "He didn't tag me!" I didn't see the tag, but I didn't see anything to make me think he missed. Grrr, I really felt like I was in the right spot for 95% of the plays that could have happened.

[keydetpiper]

I ended a game on a situation like this the other night. BR prep, I'm the only umpire. Passed ball and R3 comes home as F2 retrieves the ball and dives back toward the base as runner slides in. F2 ends up stretched out on the ground with his body between me and the runner. I see a tag, I look for the ball, and I see through a gap between F2's legs that the ball is in his mitt. "He's out!" The runner's bench was not shielded by F2's body and several players and parents exclaimed that he dropped the ball. I never saw it out of possession, and if it did pop out it must have bounced right back into his mitt because it was right there. 3B coach comes to tell me it hit the ground, I tell him exactly what I saw: after the tag, the ball was in F2's mitt right after the tag. He was satisfied with that.

As near as I can tell, the best you can do is explain to the coach what you saw, and I like the "In my judgment..." line. I'll have to use that one.