Base Awards

[Lhaber9]

I had a travel game the other day. The game was on a turf field. next to the door in the gate there is a concrete section and a section where parents and fans sit, this area is all dead ball area. With a runner on second and third and 1 out, the batter pops the ball into foul territory near the third base dugout. The third baseman runs over and makes the catch. The runner on third is off the bag and instead of throwing to the second baseman covering at third, the third baseman decides to chase the runner. With the ball in his non-glove hand he reaches out to tag the runner. in the process the ball is knocked out of the fielders hands and it rolls into the area where the parents are sitting. Dead Ball. What is the correct placement of the runners in this scenario? its not the first play by an infielder so 2 bases and both runners score? Thanks

[mstaylor]

In any situation, it is a two base award so R2 and R3 score.

[Mr Umpire]

I had a travel game the other day. The game was on a turf field. next to the door in the gate there is a concrete section and a section where parents and fans sit, this area is all dead ball area. With a runner on second and third and 1 out, the batter pops the ball into foul territory near the third base dugout. The third baseman runs over and makes the catch. The runner on third is off the bag and instead of throwing to the second baseman covering at third, the third baseman decides to chase the runner. With the ball in his non-glove hand he reaches out to tag the runner. in the process the ball is knocked out of the fielders hands and it rolls into the area where the parents are sitting. Dead Ball. What is the correct placement of the runners in this scenario? its not the first play by an infielder so 2 bases and both runners score? Thanks

Actually, it is the first play by an infielder. The catch does not count as the first play. Running after R3 counts as the first play. But, as MST said, the award is the same in this situation.

[Fittske24]

Here is another part that also has to be addressed..... If what I read the original post is correct, it sounds like the runner from 3rd did not tag up properly after the catch in foul territory. If a run down occurred before retouch of 3rd, I doubt the runner from 3rd made it back to the bag to retouch 3rd base. So even though the runner on 3rd is awarded home, he still can be called out on appeal for not tagging up.

[Thunderheads]

I had a travel game the other day. The game was on a turf field. next to the door in the gate there is a concrete section and a section where parents and fans sit, this area is all dead ball area. With a runner on second and third and 1 out, the batter pops the ball into foul territory near the third base dugout. The third baseman runs over and makes the catch. The runner on third is off the bag and instead of throwing to the second baseman covering at third, the third baseman decides to chase the runner. With the ball in his non-glove hand he reaches out to tag the runner. in the process the ball is knocked out of the fielders hands and it rolls into the area where the parents are sitting. Dead Ball. What is the correct placement of the runners in this scenario? its not the first play by an infielder so 2 bases and both runners score? Thanks

Actually, it is the first play by an infielder. The catch does not count as the first play. Running after R3 counts as the first play. But, as MST said, the award is the same in this situation.

Because there wasn't a throw involved ?

[Mr Umpire]

I had a travel game the other day. The game was on a turf field. next to the door in the gate there is a concrete section and a section where parents and fans sit, this area is all dead ball area. With a runner on second and third and 1 out, the batter pops the ball into foul territory near the third base dugout. The third baseman runs over and makes the catch. The runner on third is off the bag and instead of throwing to the second baseman covering at third, the third baseman decides to chase the runner. With the ball in his non-glove hand he reaches out to tag the runner. in the process the ball is knocked out of the fielders hands and it rolls into the area where the parents are sitting. Dead Ball. What is the correct placement of the runners in this scenario? its not the first play by an infielder so 2 bases and both runners score? Thanks

Actually, it is the first play by an infielder. The catch does not count as the first play. Running after R3 counts as the first play. But, as MST said, the award is the same in this situation.

Because there wasn't a throw involved ?

Well, it is a little more than that. A play is defined as a legitimate attempt to retire a runner.

Let's say he got so close to R3 but couldn't reach him and he is near 3B. R3 gets away but he attempts to tag R2 (and let's say it was bases loaded instead of just R2,R3). Since he attempted to retire R3 and missed, his attempt on R2 is the second play by an infielder without a throw. If R1 is on 2B when the "throw" (or drop if you want) occurred after going for R2 and went OOP, R1 gets HP. The attempt to retire the 2 runners count as 2 separate plays and R1 gets 2 bases from TOT instead of TOP.

So, you can have 2 plays or attempted plays without a single throw. Probably not going to happen outside of Coach pitch but it may.

[Thunderheads]

I had a travel game the other day. The game was on a turf field. next to the door in the gate there is a concrete section and a section where parents and fans sit, this area is all dead ball area. With a runner on second and third and 1 out, the batter pops the ball into foul territory near the third base dugout. The third baseman runs over and makes the catch. The runner on third is off the bag and instead of throwing to the second baseman covering at third, the third baseman decides to chase the runner. With the ball in his non-glove hand he reaches out to tag the runner. in the process the ball is knocked out of the fielders hands and it rolls into the area where the parents are sitting. Dead Ball. What is the correct placement of the runners in this scenario? its not the first play by an infielder so 2 bases and both runners score? Thanks

Actually, it is the first play by an infielder. The catch does not count as the first play. Running after R3 counts as the first play. But, as MST said, the award is the same in this situation.

Because there wasn't a throw involved ?

Well, it is a little more than that. A play is defined as a legitimate attempt to retire a runner.

Let's say he got so close to R3 but couldn't reach him and he is near 3B. R3 gets away but he attempts to tag R2 (and let's say it was bases loaded instead of just R2,R3). Since he attempted to retire R3 and missed, his attempt on R2 is the second play by an infielder without a throw. If R1 is on 2B when the "throw" (or drop if you want) occurred after going for R2 and went OOP, R1 gets HP. The attempt to retire the 2 runners count as 2 separate plays and R1 gets 2 bases from TOT instead of TOP.

So, you can have 2 plays or attempted plays without a single throw. Probably not going to happen outside of Coach pitch but it may.

wow, that's more detail than I was ready for, but thanks! So, ... the catch of the pop up isn't a 'first play' ........ ??

[Mr Umpire]

Well, it is a little more than that. A play is defined as a legitimate attempt to retire a runner.

Let's say he got so close to R3 but couldn't reach him and he is near 3B. R3 gets away but he attempts to tag R2 (and let's say it was bases loaded instead of just R2,R3). Since he attempted to retire R3 and missed, his attempt on R2 is the second play by an infielder without a throw. If R1 is on 2B when the "throw" (or drop if you want) occurred after going for R2 and went OOP, R1 gets HP. The attempt to retire the 2 runners count as 2 separate plays and R1 gets 2 bases from TOT instead of TOP.

So, you can have 2 plays or attempted plays without a single throw. Probably not going to happen outside of Coach pitch but it may.

wow, that's more detail than I was ready for, but thanks! So, ... the catch of the pop up isn't a 'first play' ........ ??

Correct. It has to be after the fielder obtains the ball. The count doesn't begin until after that.

[Thunderheads]

Well, it is a little more than that. A play is defined as a legitimate attempt to retire a runner.

Let's say he got so close to R3 but couldn't reach him and he is near 3B. R3 gets away but he attempts to tag R2 (and let's say it was bases loaded instead of just R2,R3). Since he attempted to retire R3 and missed, his attempt on R2 is the second play by an infielder without a throw. If R1 is on 2B when the "throw" (or drop if you want) occurred after going for R2 and went OOP, R1 gets HP. The attempt to retire the 2 runners count as 2 separate plays and R1 gets 2 bases from TOT instead of TOP.

So, you can have 2 plays or attempted plays without a single throw. Probably not going to happen outside of Coach pitch but it may.

wow, that's more detail than I was ready for, but thanks! So, ... the catch of the pop up isn't a 'first play' ........ ??

Correct. It has to be after the fielder obtains the ball. The count doesn't begin until after that.

ok, ok...that makes perfect sense, thanks for that , ...AGAIN!! :notworthy:

[Rich Ives]

I had a travel game the other day. The game was on a turf field. next to the door in the gate there is a concrete section and a section where parents and fans sit, this area is all dead ball area. With a runner on second and third and 1 out, the batter pops the ball into foul territory near the third base dugout. The third baseman runs over and makes the catch. The runner on third is off the bag and instead of throwing to the second baseman covering at third, the third baseman decides to chase the runner. With the ball in his non-glove hand he reaches out to tag the runner. in the process the ball is knocked out of the fielders hands and it rolls into the area where the parents are sitting. Dead Ball. What is the correct placement of the runners in this scenario? its not the first play by an infielder so 2 bases and both runners score? Thanks

Actually, it is the first play by an infielder. The catch does not count as the first play. Running after R3 counts as the first play. But, as MST said, the award is the same in this situation.

Because there wasn't a throw involved ?

MLBUM 5.1

A play or attempted play is interpreted as a legitimate effort by a defensive player who has possession of the ball to actually retire a runner. This may include an actual attempt to tag a runner, a fielder running toward a base with the ball in an attempt to force or tag a runner, or actually throwing to another defensive player in an attempt to retire a runner. (The fact that the runner is not out is not relevant.) A fake or a feint to throw shall not be deemed a play or an attempted play.

The catch doesn't count as a play because the fielder didn't have possession prior to the putout.

[Thunderheads]

I had a travel game the other day. The game was on a turf field. next to the door in the gate there is a concrete section and a section where parents and fans sit, this area is all dead ball area. With a runner on second and third and 1 out, the batter pops the ball into foul territory near the third base dugout. The third baseman runs over and makes the catch. The runner on third is off the bag and instead of throwing to the second baseman covering at third, the third baseman decides to chase the runner. With the ball in his non-glove hand he reaches out to tag the runner. in the process the ball is knocked out of the fielders hands and it rolls into the area where the parents are sitting. Dead Ball. What is the correct placement of the runners in this scenario? its not the first play by an infielder so 2 bases and both runners score? Thanks

Actually, it is the first play by an infielder. The catch does not count as the first play. Running after R3 counts as the first play. But, as MST said, the award is the same in this situation.

Because there wasn't a throw involved ?

MLBUM 5.1

A play or attempted play is interpreted as a legitimate effort by a defensive player who has possession of the ball to actually retire a runner. This may include an actual attempt to tag a runner, a fielder running toward a base with the ball in an attempt to force or tag a runner, or actually throwing to another defensive player in an attempt to retire a runner. (The fact that the runner is not out is not relevant.) A fake or a feint to throw shall not be deemed a play or an attempted play.

The catch doesn't count as a play because the fielder didn't have possession prior to the putout.

And ANOTHER good explanation, ...thanks Rich!