Mr Umpire

The direction of the point doesn't matter. Only the direction of the step.

This is what I was thinking if I were to have one. Did he step toward 2B?

The main problem with the outside at this level is the range of the infielders and how deep they play at times. I'd imagine that is the reason they came inside. Less likely to be involved with the play while being as close to it as possible.

Now, the question is where will you fall in this convoluted thread. It looks like KLAH, Gray, and Jax are hogging up several weeks to watch it back to back. Honestly, Cody seems a LOT more focused than those 2, so I'm thinking I'll be watching it next week. Bwahahahahaha Jax and Gray never claimed their spot. I'm 2d. Hmmmmm, some people on here have no sense of humor.

The only time that rule comes into effect is when the BR backs up toward and completely passes HP when he has to go to 1B (or running the bases in reverse for a travesty but that is a whole other issue). Otherwise, every runner is allowed to back up to their previous base including the BR.

That reminded me of how the bullpens come jogging in late when there's a bench-clearing brawl! Kind of like this: http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=31104245&topic_id=62343546 http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=31104245&topic_id=62343546

Now, the question is where will you fall in this convoluted thread. It looks like KLAH, Gray, and Jax are hogging up several weeks to watch it back to back.

No matter what he does, he has to go. You ejected him regardless of what you said or what mechanic you didn't do. Once you did that, he has to go even if you were the only one who heard it (Or thought you were). He may have heard it but dismissed it since he had his back turned. It worked this time and you looked good doing it. Great. But, if it didn't work out as you'd hoped, he still has to leave regardless or you will lose any authority with him and not look good for your assignor. As soon as you tell your assignor "I ejected him in the 5th but didn't make him leave before he came storming on the field after my partner in the 7th", no assignor is going to be happy with that. Don't ever act like you didn't EJ someone. That has a very bad potential of coming back and biting you or your partner. Always follow through with an EJ even if it is an unpopular or even ill-advised one. You are not liable if they leave. But, you may be if they don't.

I agree. U1 is very adament about the play. He seems to be the convincing one and Gibson backs off his initial ruling.

True but what would you have done if he didn't turn around? The video could have been turned around to say "You did nothing of the sort and the video proves it". Then, you would have to go to his dugout or give the signal while he is "just sitting there" and now you look the aggressor by listening in on his dugout. If you want to look like the non-aggressor, even in this, then still give the signal but don't make it a loud verbal confrontational gesture. Just do as you did but still give the signal so it is clear he is gone. Playing a game to see who is the aggressor is not a good one to play. Don't become the aggressor by following him or getting loud when it is not necessary. But, the mechanics should be the same so it is clear what is the call. If he did not turn around and you were evaluated, how do you think it would have looked then? That is the most important question to consider. If your evaluator is ok with it, then fine. Do as you did. But, if he didn't make a scene, would your evaluator be ok with that depending on how the rest of it went? I just prefer to be consistent and not worry about "How can I turn it on them". Some are smarter than you think.

Possibly, but as long as you are not mass producing it, I can't believe MLB would get too upset. You are enabling what, 20 people to see this program? Not to mention, nobody is making any money off of it. MLB would spend more money trying to stop it than what they would make from it.

Yeah, for most of the ones I do, the dugout entrances are more towards the bases than HP. That is why I said it is a HTBT.

As for IR, this is not a play where it will come into question unless the coach just wants to waste time or burn his review chance if a limit is put on. It will come in question more for the AL call made by Gibson which was eventually overturned to the correct call. Or the ones where the umpires have been calling phantom catches. Those are the plays where it will happen the most on (maybe close calls at a base), not these. As I said before, in real time, no doubt he is out. From all of the different camera angles, no doubt again. From IR and a really close look and nitpicking the play to death, maybe not depending on how you look at it but for me, no doubt again.

What it also appears is that part of the argument was either it was in foul territory in the beginning as pointed out earlier or it hit the plate which was mentioned by one parent in the video. You have to love participant ignorance. They want their kids in the game but do not bother learning the rules of the game so they can teach their kids how to play it effectively. Too many coaches and players don't know these things and hinder themselves when it does come up. If they already knew, this would have resulted in an out. I'm just wondering what were the offensive coaches doing at the plate. Those 2 had no business from the beginning. And, the DM who got EJ should have been EJ long before it actually came. The moment he turned back around to point where the ball was AGAIN, he would have been gone if not the first time depending on what he said when he did it.

Actually, typically "Foul" calls should just be with your hands up as with any dead ball call. Less likely to point the wrong way and confuse everyone more if they didn't know before. I point as a "follow through" to the call so everyone still knows it was. But, the only time you should actually point, if you want to go with that logic, is on a fair ball. Schools may be teaching to point even on foul balls. But, if you only put your hands up and verbalize "Foul", they know what it is without pointing. One of the reasons for pointing fair is b/c there is no verbal command to it and they need to know what the call is if any are looking at the umpire. The mechanics we were taught for fair/foul was obviously a point with no verbal for fair, and the hands up with a "foul" verbal for foul. However for a fly ball that's first touched over foul territory, especially if there's either the chance of the ball being dropped or some reason that secure possession is in doubt, point it foul with no verbal, and then signal the catch as normal or signal and call the foul if its dropped. I've seen a couple of catches by fielders going in foul territory, who then wind up either in the dugout or the stands. Every time I've seen one and have caught an angle with the umpire in frame, they've pointed it foul, got in as quickly as possible to confirm the ball's caught, and then signalled the catch. Not that its an automatic way of doing things, but if they're consistently doing it there, it can't hurt to do it at our level. That makes sense as the ball is not "dead" until it touches the ground.

I'd go back to the runner establishing his own base path. So what if traditionally a runner taking an arc towards the next base goes outside of the diamond? Doesn't mean he can't take an arc inside the diamond. Besides, if you felt he had to retouch 2nd, you'd also be opening yourself to the argument that "... he [ran] the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game." Yes the defence was already confused, and maybe that confused the runner, but maybe he added to their confusion. Per the full reading of that rule: I wouldn't call him out on that. I wouldn't uphold an appeal at 2nd for "missing" the base here, on the basis that he'd only have to retouch if running the bases in reverse, and if he'd done that I would have called him out already. Once the runner started back in the direction of 1B, regardless if it is toward his dugout or not, he is liable for an appeal at 2B and needs to retouch on his way to 3B. It does not matter why he started toward 1B. The fact is he did. His basepath does not allow him to run toward 1B. To determine if this was or not would be a HTBT situation, but it sounds like he probably should have if appealed from what I imagine happened. As for abandonment, not even close to one especially since he did have the option of returning to 1B. He can easily use that argument. Once it is ABSOLUTELY clear he is not running the bases anymore (in the dugout is a good rule of thumb and is a rule for FED I believe), then he can be called out for it. But, I'd give them a lot of rope before making that call.

Actually, typically "Foul" calls should just be with your hands up as with any dead ball call. Less likely to point the wrong way and confuse everyone more if they didn't know before. I point as a "follow through" to the call so everyone still knows it was. But, the only time you should actually point, if you want to go with that logic, is on a fair ball. Schools may be teaching to point even on foul balls. But, if you only put your hands up and verbalize "Foul", they know what it is without pointing. One of the reasons for pointing fair is b/c there is no verbal command to it and they need to know what the call is if any are looking at the umpire.

I saw that but my thought was that the "pushed backwards" happened before the glove closed, thus the ball was not yet under control, thus not a valid tag. Another call not overturned, yet the rat maintains..... While I agree with the call especially in real time, I can see the point of it. Does he have control of the ball before R1 touches 2B? That is the basis of his comment and a valid one. I agree with ZM about splitting hairs on a very close call in real time. The IR makes it look possible to not be correct and does raise doubt on it if you question his control or not.

I'm completely opposite. More often than not I miss the great plays because I'm watching runners touch, looking for obs/int etc... Did you see that catch??? Nope. But I saw R2 touch 3B and the plate. If you are watching the ball, then you should see the great play especially a catch. I agree we do miss some of the "great" plays. But, we should see a lot of them as well especially if we are the calling umpire for the "great" play. We actually miss a lot of the great plays. I see a lot of guys watch the great plays but miss what they should be watching. The only "great" play I can imagine missing routinely is a troubled ball from the left side (from HP or right if you are referring to F8's right side) of F8 toward the 3B foul line when in A position. If it is a diving stop by an infielder or a troubled ball when in B or C, I have a hard time imagining missing that play by either umpire especially the calling umpire. If you don't see those, then you are not watching the ball and the entire play to see what happens such as INT or a time play for the tag up. Also, if you are calling the bang bang play at 1B, then you saw the play. Otherwise, you are only looking at the base and missing a whole lot of what is going on on the field. Especially to see where you should be to get a proper angle. Again, I watch the game while making the calls. I guess I just see a whole lot more of the game b/c I am keeping up with the ball while keeping track of the runner(s) to ensure no OBS or INT. While both umpires do have their responsibility, they should still be seeing the plays on the field. Also, time plays of a "great" tag play at 2B b/c if you don't see it as PU, you can't judge if R2 touched HP before BR was tagged at 2B. I'm sure EVERY umpire saw the great play by the STL F1 the other night b/c no other runner was on base though they had their own responsibilities. They watched the play and made the call at 1B. Can't do it otherwise. Again, I watch the game from the best place possible except the occasional one where I couldn't due to responsibilities. And, that is why I don't "hang it up". I'm a lot closer to the action than any ordinary fan of the game. And, I get to make the decision of how the play went.

I'm completely opposite. More often than not I miss the great plays because I'm watching runners touch, looking for obs/int etc... Did you see that catch??? Nope. But I saw R2 touch 3B and the plate. If you are watching the ball, then you should see the great play especially a catch. I agree we do miss some of the "great" plays. But, we should see a lot of them as well especially if we are the calling umpire for the "great" play.

It isn't about the judgment of it. It is about what rule is being applied to make the judgment call. That is protestable.

This is what keeps me from giving it up. I watch the game. I have the best place of where I can watch it from beginning to end (even bad games). If you are thinking of hanging it up, don't do it just yet. Get back out there and make just 1 more call and see if you would rather not do it. I don't hear the parents and only hear the really loud coaches or players. The rest means nothing to me and I just watch the game.

I simply tell "We are not calling nit-picky ones or we will be here all day. We are only calling ones that are obvious such as not throwing to 1B or delivering the pitch." This is only if the league has any balk issues and the coach addresses it at the meeting. Otherwise, nothing comes up about it and we play the game as necessary to get as much playing time in or the number of innings allowed as possible. This satisfies them and are only for lower level ball anyways. The better ones won't even bring it up.

I understand something may happen when the head is turned. But, I have been turning my head for over 20 years now and nothing has happened. Call it luck or just good timing. Your choice and I have no problem with your opinion of it. Plus, train those who are new to it as you please. However, I do agree with new umpires not turning their head until they have learned good timing for things like that.

This is certainly a case where the "experts" don't agree. B/c a player cannot lose their status as a member of the offensive team just b/c they are in the batter's box. Their status just got renamed for the purposes of certain rules but their status of the offensive team never ends until the team goes on defense.