Would you call this balk?

[grayhawk]

Freshman game. With R1, F1 is bent at the waist with the ball in his glove and his pitching arm hanging down (the gorilla). As he is taking signs, he twirls his pitching hand indicating to F2 that he wants him to go through the signs again. I called nothing, and nobody on the offensive side said anything.

From the 2011 Case book, page 51. 6.1.3: ...any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delievered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.

The above was in reference to when the pitching arm "rocks slightly side to side."

Would you call it?

[sdix00]

Freshman game. With R1, F1 is bent at the waist with the ball in his glove and his pitching arm hanging down (the gorilla). As he is taking signs, he twirls his pitching hand indicating to F2 that he wants him to go through the signs again. I called nothing, and nobody on the offensive side said anything.

From the 2011 Case book, page 51. 6.1.3: ...any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delievered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.

The above was in reference to when the pitching arm "rocks slightly side to side."

Would you call it?

I would not call it.

CASEBOOK

6.1.2 SITUATION D: F1, while on the pitcher’s plate in either the windup or set

position, (a) adjusts his cap or (b ) shakes off the signal with his glove, or (c )

shakes off the signal with his head. RULING: In (a) through (c ), these are legal

actions if these movements of the arms and legs are not associated with the

pitch.

I do not like that the FED rule book does not clearly distinguish the STRETCH from the SET. SO a little extra reading is required to accept the above casebook play.

RULE 6

ART. 3 . . . For the set position, the pitcher shall have the ball in either his

gloved hand or his pitching hand. His pitching hand shall be down at his side or

behind his back. Before starting his delivery, he shall stand with his entire nonpivot

foot in front of a line extending through the front edge of the pitcher’s plate

and with his entire pivot foot in contact with or directly in front of the pitcher’s

plate. He shall go to the set position without interruption and in one continuous

motion. He shall come to a complete and discernible stop (a change of direction

is not considered an acceptable stop) with the ball in both hands in front of the

body and his glove at or below his chin. Natural preliminary motions such as only

one stretch may be made. During these preliminary motions and during the set

position until a delivery motion occurs, the pitcher may turn on his pivot foot or

lift it in a jump turn to step with the non-pivot foot toward a base while throwing

or feinting as outlined in 6-2-4 and 2-28-5, or he may lift his pivot foot in a step

backward off the pitcher’s plate which must be in or partially within the 24-inch

length of the pitcher’s plate. In order to change to the wind-up position, he must

first step clearly backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot first. After the

pitcher has placed his pivot foot on the ground clearly behind the plate, he then

has the right to throw or feint to a base the same as that of any other infielder.

[grayhawk]

The thing is, he didn't adjust his cap, shake off the signal with his glove or his head. He shook it off with his free hand. I think, technically, it was a balk. Maybe I can file it under "he didn't try to deceive the runner" that we all know and love. :question1:

[sdix00]

The thing is, he didn't adjust his cap, shake off the signal with his glove or his head. He shook it off with his free hand. I think, technically, it was a balk. Maybe I can file it under "he didn't try to deceive the runner" that we all know and love.

Ahhhh. I missed that. I was wondering why it was so easy.

Hand must be on the side of or behind the body. There is probably something here.

[grayhawk]

The thing is, he didn't adjust his cap, shake off the signal with his glove or his head. He shook it off with his free hand. I think, technically, it was a balk. Maybe I can file it under "he didn't try to deceive the runner" that we all know and love.

Ahhhh. I missed that. I was wondering why it was so easy.

Hand must be on the side of or behind the body. There is probably something here.

Well he was in a legal stance - leaning over with his pitching arm hanging down, sometimes called the "gorilla". It's just that he twirled his pitching hand to ask F2 to go through the signs again. Just wondering if I am OOO if I call this one.

[mstaylor]

The book says he can hang it, he can't swing it around. Now in the case of the OP, as a BU I am going to tell him on the sly that doing that is a balk and to make sure he steps off to make that motion. If he does it again, bang him. I think it is a stupid stance to use and actually illegal but they are allowing it. The only reason kids do it is because they see it on TV. Balk them a couple of times for being stupid and the cach will make him quit doing it. The better answer is if nobody is complaining then just tell him not to do it and let it go. For me, it is a personal pet pieve so they get banged.

[Cajuncubsfan]

From what he is saying it doesn't sound like he has come set yet. If he is set it's a balk, if he is not set it's nothing. The only balk I will call when the pitcher is not set is dropping the ball when ingaged with the rubber.

[sdix00]

From what he is saying it doesn't sound like he has come set yet. If he is set it's a balk, if he is not set it's nothing. The only balk I will call when the pitcher is not set is dropping the ball when ingaged with the rubber.

There are about 10 more ways he can balk when he is not set.

[mstaylor]

From what he is saying it doesn't sound like he has come set yet. If he is set it's a balk, if he is not set it's nothing. The only balk I will call when the pitcher is not set is dropping the ball when ingaged with the rubber.

cajun, whether he is set or not makes no difference in HS. They are quite explicit that the gorilla arm is legal as long as he doesn't swing it. If he does then it is a balk.

[Thunderheads]

From what he is saying it doesn't sound like he has come set yet. If he is set it's a balk, if he is not set it's nothing. The only balk I will call when the pitcher is not set is dropping the ball when ingaged with the rubber.

cajun, whether he is set or not makes no difference in HS. They are quite explicit that the gorilla arm is legal as long as he doesn't swing it. If he does then it is a balk.

OBR either, correct? I mean, look at the Braves/Mets game the other night and the "balk-off" ....

[grayhawk]

From what he is saying it doesn't sound like he has come set yet. If he is set it's a balk, if he is not set it's nothing. The only balk I will call when the pitcher is not set is dropping the ball when ingaged with the rubber.

cajun, whether he is set or not makes no difference in HS. They are quite explicit that the gorilla arm is legal as long as he doesn't swing it. If he does then it is a balk.

OBR either, correct? I mean, look at the Braves/Mets game the other night and the "balk-off" ....

I think that was a "start/stop" balk, not because his arm swung. I could be wrong.

[mstaylor]

OBR you can swing or not, ball in hand or not. Personally, I think it should be illegal in all codes, but if you are going to allow it, I think Fed has it right, no swing, OK, swing, balk. There is no way for the runner to know when his set is going to start if he swings his arm. However, I call it by the ruleset I'm using, personal feelings aside.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

From what he is saying it doesn't sound like he has come set yet. If he is set it's a balk, if he is not set it's nothing. The only balk I will call when the pitcher is not set is dropping the ball when ingaged with the rubber.

If yountell yourself the only balk you will call with pitcher not set is dropping the ball you're settingbyourself up for a world of trouble. I can think of 10 off the top of my head way he can balk that arent dropping the ball when not set. Learn the other ways he can balk when not set; every fan knows it's a balk when he drops the ball, only an umpire knows all ways a balk can occur. Watch the game like an umpire, not a fan in a umpire uniform.