NFHS any prohibitions on a coach giving a verbal "sign" from the dugout to the pitcher and catcher?

[SeeingEyeDog]

I had a coach recently giving a 3 digit "sign" verbally from the dugout to his pitcher and catcher. Presumably, this was the pitch call as well as defensive coverage information.

I don't see anything in the rule book on this so, I allowed it while my partner and I monitored its execution to insure there were no undue delays and there weren't. If we saw a quick pitch, we would have grabbed that but, again we didn't have that either.

6-1-1A says "...the pitcher shall take or simulate taking the sign from the catcher with the pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate." So, if he takes the verbal sign while off the rubber, he must simulate taking the sign once his pivot foot contacts the rubber and before he starts his delivery or we have an illegal pitch or quick pitch. If he straddles the rubber (no contact) while taking the verbal sign again, as long as he simulates taking the sign once his pivot foot contacts the rubber and before he starts his delivery, the runners are not being deceived and we do not have an illegal or quick pitch.

Anything else to watch or be aware of in this situation under these rules?

~Dawg

[jimurrayalterego]

1 hour ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I had a coach recently giving a 3 digit "sign" verbally from the dugout to his pitcher and catcher. Presumably, this was the pitch call as well as defensive coverage information.

I don't see anything in the rule book on this so, I allowed it while my partner and I monitored its execution to insure there were no undue delays and there weren't. If we saw a quick pitch, we would have grabbed that but, again we didn't have that either.

6-1-1A says "...the pitcher shall take or simulate taking the sign from the catcher with the pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate." So, if he takes the verbal sign while off the rubber, he must simulate taking the sign once his pivot foot contacts the rubber and before he starts his delivery or we have an illegal pitch or quick pitch. If he straddles the rubber (no contact) while taking the verbal sign again, as long as he simulates taking the sign once his pivot foot contacts the rubber and before he starts his delivery, the runners are not being deceived and we do not have an illegal or quick pitch.

Anything else to watch or be aware of in this situation under these rules?

~Dawg

No

[SeeingEyeDog]

Thanks, Murray...somehow, I knew you come through on this...

~Dawg

[MadMax]

15 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I had a coach recently giving a 3 digit "sign" verbally from the dugout to his pitcher and catcher.

"Recently"??!! Dawg, where ya been??? 

Or, possibly more applicable, what part of the baseball landscape is in the regions of caves or remote foothills in which you're calling this game? Are there two soup cans and some string between the dugout and bullpen?

They've been calling out these secret-decoder-ring, bingo-night codes for awhile.* Where do you think this whole kerfuffle with the "players cannot wear the "wrist (code) reader" on their belts (no one cares, other than the pitcher), and if the pitcher wears one, it must be on the non-throwing forearm, and after consulting the wrist reader (getting his signs), he must make eye contact with the battery, and tokenly simulate the typical taking of signs from the catcher??

15 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Anything else to watch or be aware of in this situation under these rules?

To be aware of? Sure... 

15 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I allowed it while my partner and I monitored its execution...

If you disallowed / prohibited / penalized it, you'd have a fun evening discussing with your state commissioner why he was disturbed by a pi$$ed-off school / coach. You'd have no rule support on a prohibition. 

Pardon sounding harsh, but MSU "rulings" just get my goat. 

 

* - I've drawn laughs and levity from Batters, and fans behind the backstop, by quietly "exclaiming" "Bingo!" or "Yahtzee!" at well-timed declarations of these codes. I've even jibbed a catcher or two, when his coach is taking... so... excruciatingly... long... on... calling... the... code... , with, "Pick 3 numbers, any 3!" or "What's he using, a scratch-off lottery ticket?" 

[SeeingEyeDog]

40 minutes ago, MadMax said:

"Recently"??!! Dawg, where ya been??? 

Or, possibly more applicable, what part of the baseball landscape is in the regions of caves or remote foothills in which you're calling this game? Are there two soup cans and some string between the dugout and bullpen?

They've been calling out these secret-decoder-ring, bingo-night codes for awhile.* Where do you think this whole kerfuffle with the "players cannot wear the "wrist (code) reader" on their belts (no one cares, other than the pitcher), and if the pitcher wears one, it must be on the non-throwing forearm, and after consulting the wrist reader (getting his signs), he must make eye contact with the battery, and tokenly simulate the typical taking of signs from the catcher??

To be aware of? Sure... 

If you disallowed / prohibited / penalized it, you'd have a fun evening discussing with your state commissioner why he was disturbed by a pi$$ed-off school / coach. You'd have no rule support on a prohibition. 

Pardon sounding harsh, but MSU "rulings" just get my goat. 

 

* - I've drawn laughs and levity from Batters, and fans behind the backstop, by quietly "exclaiming" "Bingo!" or "Yahtzee!" at well-timed declarations of these codes. I've even jibbed a catcher or two, when his coach is taking... so... excruciatingly... long... on... calling... the... code... , with, "Pick 3 numbers, any 3!" or "What's he using, a scratch-off lottery ticket?" 

Max, I don't know, man...I just don't know...yes, I have seen the wristbands improperly warn.

The other night was the first night I had a coach giving the pitch via code. It was new to me. It was irregular to me. It was unfamiliar to me.

I thought the purpose of this forum was for umpires to post content and have discussions especially about things they were unfamiliar with? You know...on the off chance that...I dunno...maybe someone has experience with and could offer some advice and assistance with? You know...kind of like how siblings do for each other? Maybe that's just my family and my market...

I'm sorry I haven't seen everything on a baseball field and feel compelled to ask more veteran umpires about things...

Of course...that's just like my opinion...I could be wrong, man...
 

~Dawg

[WIUMP]

I used these as a coach for a few years. I never had a question or complaint from umpires. We practiced using the play cards and the codes as to not disrupt the flow of the game any more than giving traditional signs would.

Several coaches in my area use them at varying degrees of competence. One coach in particular will get distracted or forget about baseball for a bit and then, in panic, yell out his three-digit code after his pitcher is already set or batter has taken position in the box. Not much I can do when the pitcher steps off to check his wrist cypher. Seems not too different than a coach telling his pitcher to step off so he can relay some information.

I stopped granting time to his batters in this situation, though. No opponent has picked up on the batter stepping out to check his card without being granted time. It's too bad. I've been waiting to cross the double strike off my bingo card for a while.

[jimurrayalterego]

9 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Thanks, Murray...somehow, I knew you come through on this...

~Dawg

I think I addressed, in my opinion, your question, listing in your OP what you would address, on anything else to address. I'll reiterate "No". You might ask @MadMax what he would also list as "To be aware of? Sure... "