Assigner uses Placeholders to Assign

[johnnyg08]

Do any of you either as an assigner or work for an assigner who uses placeholders as a routine when they assign/schedule? This wouldn't necessarily be only for tournaments...but regular season stuff. 

For example, let's say that they know that they will need 10 crews on X day, but they don't have the schedules yet so they send something out that locks in 20 umpires on a given day...and upon receipt of the schedules, redistributes those assignments across the ten crews. 

Or for the inevitable reschedules, last minute changes, or emergencies...to have umpires ready to go versus having to send it out, wait for a response, only for find out that they can't do it? Or be able to more definitively tell clients if they can/can't cover a reschedule in a timely manner. 

There would also be a possibility that an umpire who was on a placeholder could be scratched and not work at all. Let's say that they only work for one association and wouldn't necessarily be losing an assignment b/c of a placeholder. Multiple association umpires would likely have a problem with a placeholder assignment OR they could simply say...I have an actual assignment that came up, please remove the placeholder. OR...they could choose to not accept placeholder assignments and just wait and see. 

If yes, what is your experience with it...what are the good things? What are the challenges/frustrations? 

Thanks! 

[The Man in Blue]

Ha!  I wish my local assignors put that much effort into it!

OK, there is one who has asked me to hold dates he knew about but didn't have details on, but it isn't a regular practice.

I think that a smart assignor would do that.  The trick is, as you pointed out, if the assignor overbooks or if a team changes things.  Most of the time, I would think that would be caught far enough in advance to provide an adequate solution.  If it is short notice, I am expecting to get paid by somebody (I don't care who) because I passed up other opportunties.

There was one summer ball outfit that I worked for that would hire a "standby" umpire for the weekend.  You got a game pay for each round, whether you worked it or not.  You had to stay on site, and typically were used as relief to keep things moving (e.g., go take the last inning on the bases so that guy could go get his gear on).  

The potential issues there though are the types of things we need to organize and fight against.  Our time is not valueless. 

Slight tangent, but I am pushing back on "the Arbiter assignment is your contract" because TPTB only want that when it is convenient for them.  More than once, I have had a night scheduled for a V+JV innings, only to arrive and find there is no JV.  Most schools will pay us for this (it is what we were contracted for).  There are a few who have started booking everything as V+JV, but not paying you for it if there was no JV (they literally write two different checks and instruct the coach/admin not to give you the second one).  I have been encouraging fellow umpires to also push back on this when it happens to them.  

Flip side, showing up and being informed "We want to play JV."  Places will pay for this, but the point I have been pushing back on is that it is disrespectful to assume "you are here, so you may as well spend all night here."  We have one school who refuses to contract the JV innings.  I refuse to stay for them.  I wouldn't mind, as it is the closest games I can get to my house, but there is a point to make here.

[BLarson]

I don't know if I would like it.   There are several complexes around my house.
I don't want to commit to a day/time, and then be forced to drive out of town or out of state because I missed out on the games close to me.

[johnnyg08]

4 minutes ago, BLarson said:

I don't know if I would like it.   There are several complexes around my house.
I don't want to commit to a day/time, and then be forced to drive out of town or out of state because I missed out on the games close to me.

That's a fair take. Especially with several complexes in your immediate area and if there are multiple assigners in that area. 

 

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, BLarson said:

I don't know if I would like it.   There are several complexes around my house.
I don't want to commit to a day/time, and then be forced to drive out of town or out of state because I missed out on the games close to me.

Which is why I toss out the notion that me blocking the date is the value of a contract.  If you ask me to block it and I agree, I need to be paid if you (assignor) goofed.

[Thatsnotyou]

If I hold a date for you/conference/schools, and then I don’t get a game out of it (and likely don’t know until that day), I should be compensated somehow. I get why assignors do it - it rains and I have guys held. But if you don’t have games, only the umpire suffers? It’s overbooking the flight with no repercussions.  
 

That or TBDs have to be agreed upon going in. I’m willingly clicking on this - I’m OK if I work, I’m OK if I don’t. Don’t assign me a TBD and tell me it’s a contractually held date. 

[orangebird]

I have "pending game" on Monday for Arbiter as we speak lol

[Marcus6]

It’s amazing how some assignors conduct business. Wouldn’t work in pretty much any other field of work.

[Jonump]

A few random thoughts with no conclusions:

I wonder if a partial/half-pay hold would be useful in this situation?

You could also have a hold and it "goes hard" a certain time in advance, maybe a day or so. I've had plenty of last minute assignments so there is certainly time to readjust on the assigners part.

Arbiter has blocks and firm blocks ( I don't understand that one--override a block on me, firm or not and you are on your own) so you could have holds and firm holds. One is paid perhaps the other adjustable?

Maybe do it by level? Games at a certain level or distance are paid on the hold

I wonder if a bidding system could work?

I wonder if you could arrange it so you could have only so many cancelled holds before the ump gets paid?

Like I said, I haven't thought these through, but it feels like some creativity could improve stuff on both ends.

 

[johnnyg08]

Yet, when a team drops or moves a game for no reason or no good reason, and the crew loses a game...there seems to be minimal resistance. Isn't a placeholder essentially the same thing? It also eliminates that administrative scramble. In areas where there's no other association where they could pick something up, there's no harm in a placeholder. 

[The Man in Blue]

Dropping this here just to tack on to the general sentiment of no respect for the umpires . . .

Showed up for a DH on Saturday.  As I pulled up 45 minutes before game time, I noticed my partner was one of only 3 cars in the parking lot.  Yep, the game had been canceled earlier that week and nobody had bothered to call the assignor or the umpires.  Check is supposed to be in the mail, we'll see if it is for 1 game or 2.

E-mails have been going out at a furious pace this week, needing games filled, needing replacements, this game got moved and needs new umps because the other ones won't travel, Johnny GameHorder booked three games to ensure the best paycheck and needs to pawn off the other two . . .

The worst one was sent out at 11:30am.  A school added a JV game that morning and needed two umpires for 4:30pm.  5 hours notice and they expect two umpires to fall out of a tree like frozen iguanas.

[The Man in Blue]

14 hours ago, Jonump said:

I wonder if a bidding system could work?

 

I like many of your ideas, but I wanted to pull that one out.  I have long wondered about assigning this way.  Put out the available games with a deadline and let umpires bid.  I'm not talking financial bidding (i.e., lowest bidder), but a "seniority" or "priority" system.  This would require an association or assignor with a very organized ratings (and thus feedback, training, and defined expectations!) system.  

[johnnyg08]

3 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

5 hours notice and they expect two umpires to fall out of a tree like frozen iguanas.

Don't you know all we do is sit at home waiting for the phone to ring? We couldn't possibly be doing anything else. 

[noumpere]

I have often remarked that many (not all) schools act as if a full set of officials for every sport at every level show up at every school every day.  If there's a game, we work it.  If not, we go home. 

 

Move a game?  Add a game? No problem -- the officials are already there.  

 

That said, I try to confirm my games with the home team early in the week (and with the visitors by looking at the schedule on line and contacting them only if there's a difference)

[johnnyg08]

15 minutes ago, noumpere said:

I have often remarked that many (not all) schools act as if a full set of officials for every sport at every level show up at every school every day.  If there's a game, we work it.  If not, we go home. 

 

Move a game?  Add a game? No problem -- the officials are already there.  

 

That said, I try to confirm my games with the home team early in the week (and with the visitors by looking at the schedule on line and contacting them only if there's a difference)

"Hi, we'd like to move today's 7pm game up to 1pm. We have a band concert that suddenly appeared out of nowhere" 

 

[Velho]

3 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

"Hi, we'd like to move today's 7pm game up to 1pm. We have a band concert that suddenly appeared out of nowhere" 

Adjacent observation: As new UIC I encountered that lower level (8U, 7U) are regularly having 7-8 players show up with a roster of 11-12, apparently because the kids are over scheduled with other sports, band, music, etc. When I update the level Guidelines I didn't even contemplate that since 15 years ago when my son played that never happened. Not once. I started asking at my various games when lineups are short and it seems to be endemic all the may up to Majors/12U.

[orangebird]

33 minutes ago, Velho said:

Adjacent observation: As new UIC I encountered that lower level (8U, 7U) are regularly having 7-8 players show up with a roster of 11-12, apparently because the kids are over scheduled with other sports, band, music, etc. When I update the level Guidelines I didn't even contemplate that since 15 years ago when my son played that never happened. Not once. I started asking at my various games when lineups are short and it seems to be endemic all the may up to Majors/12U.

Gotta make sure the college applications have every genre of extracurricular! 

[eddieq]

Topic adjacent - at a rec game the other night, one of the coaches said to me multiple times, "Hey blue, thanks for showing up tonight".  That tells me they have a scheduling issue or something.  I cannot imagine just "no showing" a game that I agreed to. 

[BLWizzRanger]

24 minutes ago, eddieq said:

Topic adjacent - at a rec game the other night, one of the coaches said to me multiple times, "Hey blue, thanks for showing up tonight".  That tells me they have a scheduling issue or something.  I cannot imagine just "no showing" a game that I agreed to. 

Maybe the umpires had band practice or had to meet their parole officer?