Can you have obstruction before first base when the runner is out of the runner's lane?

[Umpy]

I had a U3K situation in a game last night where the runner ran all the way to 1B on the inside of the foul lane (there was a marked Runner's Lane, no double base), the throw beat the runner and I didn't see anything that indicated the runner was impeded in anyway (no diverting his path to move around the fielder or slowing down).  Seemed relatively clean to me, however the first base coach asked me to call it obstruction and it got me thinking about a hypothetical if the runner WAS impeded.

If the runner was impeded by F3 before reaching 1B the ball should be dead and the runner awarded first, but the runner was establishing his base path outside of his mandatory running lane.

My understanding is the test for Runner's Lane interference is that the throw must have been interfered with, but here the ball was caught cleanly and beat the runner, despite him being in the way of the throw, so I can't see justifying that there was any interference.  It seems incorrect to call obstruction though when the runner was only being obstructed because he took a path he isn't supposed to.

I haven't found any similar discussions on this in searching around online, so I'm figuring I must me misunderstanding or missing part of a rule on it because it seems like if the runner was obstructed nobody is in the right.  Anyone have any thoughts on where I'm going wrong?

 

This particular example was Little League, but I believe the same situation applies in all rule sets.

[Velho]

5 minutes ago, Umpy said:

My understanding is the test for Runner's Lane interference is that the throw must have been interfered with,

Sticking with LL that this game was played under, the above is not correct. The Interference is judged in regards to the  fielder taking the throw, not the throw itself. 

 

LL 6.05(j) (emphasis mine):  in running the last half of the distance from home base to first base, while the ball is being fielded to first base, the batter- runner runs outside (to the right of) the runner’s lane, or inside(to the left of ) the foul line, and int he umpire’s judgment in so doing interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base; except that the batter-runner may run outside (to the right of) the runner’s lane, or inside (to the left of ) the foul line to avoid a fielder attempting to field a batted ball;

 

Form the new umpire Manual (that supersedes the RIM):

Key Rule Elements – Must Be Present for Interference: There are two essential conditions that must be met before interference under this rule can be called:

o A throw must be made. If no throw is made, there can be no interference with a fielder taking the throw.

o The throw must be a quality throw.

▪ A “quality throw” is one that, in the umpire’s judgment, could reasonably have been caught by the fielder covering first base had the runner not been in the way.

▪ A throw that sails well over the fielder’s head, is wide of the base, or clearly uncatchable should not result in an interference call.

 

10 minutes ago, Umpy said:

however the first base coach asked me to call it obstruction and it got me thinking about a hypothetical if the runner WAS impeded.

I'm unclear what you're describing (whether the actual play or your hypothetical). Who would potentially OBS? Are you referring to a fielder between home and first base? The fielder at first base fielding the throw? Or something else?

14 minutes ago, Umpy said:

It seems incorrect to call obstruction though when the runner was only being obstructed because he took a path he isn't supposed to.

The runner can go where they like (other than counterclockwise or to otherwise confuse the defense). And, if outside the RL (not in an attempt to avoid a fielder fielding a batted ball) they are subject to INT on a quality throw. If they interfere with a fielder fielding a batted ball they are subject to INT. If they are Impeded OBS can be ruled. Only one of those things can be happening in a given moment.

[grayhawk]

Pretty hard to obstruct when you have possession of the ball.

[Jay R.]

Need more information to discuss your play; namely, who did the coach think was obstructing the runner, and what action obstructed the runner?

I can see a couple possible scenarios that might be obstruction even if the runner is running in fair territory:

1. A weak hit to the right side of the infield causes multiple fielders to head that way. If, say, F2 fields the ball, F3 covers first, and F1 peels away from the catcher but into BR's path, you could have obstruction before the throw. There's a classic MLB obstruction call (can't find the video) where both F1 and F3 tried to field a slow roller up the line and obstruction was called because they both couldn't be the protected fielder. IIRC the runner was in fair territory.

2. If F3 set up in a way to block access to the bag, such as straddling the ball while awaiting the throw from the catcher, I could see an obstruction call if the runner actually slowed down to avoid trucking him.