Struggling as U3 in Deep B with R1, Steals at 2B

[UAME]

As I've begun to work more 3 man games, I consistently find myself struggling with confidence in my calls when in Deep B at 2B with R1 stealing.

For starters, I don't understand what seems to be the general stated consensus that Deep B offers a better angle (to prevent being straight-lined) on the swipe tag/runner reaching the bag.  When my heels are on the grass, I'm almost standing IN the baseline.  Executing a pivot with the throw, I feel straightlined on EVERY play, looking right up the butt of the sliding runner.

Deep C seems to me to offer an almost polar opposite (and ideal 90 degree view of the runner coming into the base.)  From that side, I can see in my peripheral vision R1 advancing.

These plays from Deep B feel like they explode on me.  Even in Deep B, I know when R1 is coming (I can hear his foot steps, and I also listen for F3 yelling), so it's not that I'm taken by surprise that I need to make a call.  I do think I may sometimes track the throw from F2 too long.  In 2 man (regular B) I've tried to develop a habit of keeping my chest to the ball and letting the throw turn me to 2B.  Maybe I don't have that much time in Deep B?  My partner last night advised that, as soon as I know I'm not going to be HIT with the throw, pivot immediately.

I'm also wondering if I should be moving (towards the centerline of the diamond? towards the mound?) to increase the angle between my line of sight and R1's path to 2B.

*Editing to add:  I'm now thinking I may also be setting up too far from 2B/too close to 1B in my Deep B??*

Lay all the advice you have on me.  I'm trying to comply with my training and the expectations that I should be excelling on that side of the field, but I haven't been able to get comfortable there yet.

Homemade graphic to support my opinions about the angles that I'm experiencing:

[grayhawk]

3 hours ago, UAME said:

As I've begun to work more 3 man games, I consistently find myself struggling with confidence in my calls when in Deep B at 2B with R1 stealing.

For starters, I don't understand what seems to be the general stated consensus that Deep B offers a better angle (to prevent being straight-lined) on the swipe tag/runner reaching the bag.  When my heels are on the grass, I'm almost standing IN the baseline.  Executing a pivot with the throw, I feel straightlined on EVERY play, looking right up the butt of the sliding runner.

Runners tend to slide to the outside of the bag, and if you're in deep C, you're looking right through the fielder's body at that play. Deep B, if properly positioned, gives you a much better look.

Deep C seems to me to offer an almost polar opposite (and ideal 90 degree view of the runner coming into the base.)  From that side, I can see in my peripheral vision R1 advancing.

You can see R1 advancing in your peripheral vision in Deep B.

These plays from Deep B feel like they explode on me.  Even in Deep B, I know when R1 is coming (I can hear his foot steps, and I also listen for F3 yelling), so it's not that I'm taken by surprise that I need to make a call.  I do think I may sometimes track the throw from F2 too long.  In 2 man (regular B) I've tried to develop a habit of keeping my chest to the ball and letting the throw turn me to 2B.  Maybe I don't have that much time in Deep B?  My partner last night advised that, as soon as I know I'm not going to be HIT with the throw, pivot immediately.

Good advice. Get your eyes on the glove earlier so it doesn't blow up on you.

I'm also wondering if I should be moving (towards the centerline of the diamond? towards the mound?) to increase the angle between my line of sight and R1's path to 2B.

I can't see that helping.

*Editing to add:  I'm now thinking I may also be setting up too far from 2B/too close to 1B in my Deep B??*

I'm not on a tangent with the side of the mound. I'm closer to 2B just inside the grass. There are different philosophies on exactly where to be. Some say to take 10 steps from the bag and 2 steps in. Try working closer to see how it feels.

Lay all the advice you have on me.  I'm trying to comply with my training and the expectations that I should be excelling on that side of the field, but I haven't been able to get comfortable there yet.

Not sure why you're having trouble. In 2-man, you gain ground while turning with the throw to essentially get to the spot you're already in while starting in Deep B.

 

 

[JSam21]

Let me ask you this question. Do you struggle with the play when working the 2 umpire system?

 

[UAME]

5 hours ago, JSam21 said:

Let me ask you this question. Do you struggle with the play when working the 2 umpire system?

 

I'm not going to say it's my favorite call to make, but I feel like I've been less prone to kick it when I'm in regular B (further from the tag.)  That's not to say that I can see all the minute details better from far away, but I feel like I make the "accepted" or "expected" call more often from back there.

I saw the same piece of advice in two places yesterday (in @grayhawk's reply and, by chance, in a Jim Evans book) that I don't recall seeing before:  watching the glove of the fielder during the play.  I would say that, by default, I soft-focus on the side of the base facing 1B and just kind of "absorb" the sequence of the runner's slide vs the applied tag.  That may be a source of my discomfort from Deep B: I can't really see that same point of reference with the runner on the ground.

I'm going to intentionally focus on the glove in my next few games and see how I feel about it.

I recall having a similar uncertain/uneasy "exploded on" feeling during my first umpiring season for banger calls on BR at 1B.  Someone, somewhere, suggested that I visually focus on BR's feet (while listening for the pop of mitt) as he approached the base, and that was a cue that got me squared away immediately.  Prior to that, I had been doing a form of what I presently do at 2B: focusing my gaze on the base, then trying to judge if I saw a foot touch or heard the mitt pop first.

As a relative newcomer, I would say that this specific topic remains the most uncovered & untaught aspect of umpiring mechanics:  the actual mechanics of eye discipline.  I can't help but believe that the most consistent umpires have developed a specific technique (although it may be subconscious) that helps them get it right more often.  Just being in the right spot (angle and distance) isn't the only recipe for a good call.  You have to have a mental approach on WHAT to watch and when.  If I could encourage veteran officials on one training topic, it would be to contemplate & then communicate to the rest of us exactly how you are controlling your eyes during any given play.

[SeeingEyeDog]

@UAME, in 2-man, from the B position to get to your ideal spot for an R1 steal...what is your order of operations? (Assuming true throw...)

• When do you leave B for your spot?
• What is your footwork?
• What are looking at when you leave B?
• When do you start to find the base and look at it?
• Are you fully locking down for the play and when do you lockdown?

By no means do you have to answer these questions. You do not owe anyone here an explanation. But by asking yourself these questions and really breaking down how you take the an R1 steal play in 2-man will help with your deep-B in 3-man.

~Dawg

[JSam21]

16 hours ago, UAME said:

I'm not going to say it's my favorite call to make, but I feel like I've been less prone to kick it when I'm in regular B (further from the tag.)  That's not to say that I can see all the minute details better from far away, but I feel like I make the "accepted" or "expected" call more often from back there.

I saw the same piece of advice in two places yesterday (in @grayhawk's reply and, by chance, in a Jim Evans book) that I don't recall seeing before:  watching the glove of the fielder during the play.  I would say that, by default, I soft-focus on the side of the base facing 1B and just kind of "absorb" the sequence of the runner's slide vs the applied tag.  That may be a source of my discomfort from Deep B: I can't really see that same point of reference with the runner on the ground.

I'm going to intentionally focus on the glove in my next few games and see how I feel about it.

I recall having a similar uncertain/uneasy "exploded on" feeling during my first umpiring season for banger calls on BR at 1B.  Someone, somewhere, suggested that I visually focus on BR's feet (while listening for the pop of mitt) as he approached the base, and that was a cue that got me squared away immediately.  Prior to that, I had been doing a form of what I presently do at 2B: focusing my gaze on the base, then trying to judge if I saw a foot touch or heard the mitt pop first.

As a relative newcomer, I would say that this specific topic remains the most uncovered & untaught aspect of umpiring mechanics:  the actual mechanics of eye discipline.  I can't help but believe that the most consistent umpires have developed a specific technique (although it may be subconscious) that helps them get it right more often.  Just being in the right spot (angle and distance) isn't the only recipe for a good call.  You have to have a mental approach on WHAT to watch and when.  If I could encourage veteran officials on one training topic, it would be to contemplate & then communicate to the rest of us exactly how you are controlling your eyes during any given play.

If I may give one positioning suggestion for your Deep B before getting into the meat of your other question. Try trying one step up from your current starting position and you might develop a better angle.

Now as for your eyes question... The quicker that we can get our eyes to where the action is, the easier it becomes to focus on what we need to focus on. Don't let the ball turn you... as soon as you're comfortable knowing you're not going to be hit by the throw, get your eyes to the base and find the defender. The defender is going to let you know where the throw is going by their actions. And yes, the focus should be on the defender's glove. The defender will take the glove to the runner, so if we focus on the glove we will see the tag when it occurs. 

[UAME]

13 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

@UAME, in 2-man, from the B position to get to your ideal spot for an R1 steal...what is your order of operations? (Assuming true throw...)

• When do you leave B for your spot?
• What is your footwork?
• What are looking at when you leave B?
• When do you start to find the base and look at it?
• Are you fully locking down for the play and when do you lockdown?

By no means do you have to answer these questions. You do not owe anyone here an explanation. But by asking yourself these questions and really breaking down how you take the an R1 steal play in 2-man will help with your deep-B in 3-man.

~Dawg

Dawg,

I don't mind the questioning, but I'm not sure that I'm intentional enough with all my setup to answer your questions without guessing.

As I said in my first post, one thought I've held (when in B) is to let the ball turn my chest to 2B during the throw.  Because of that, I'd say I'm not getting my eyes to the mesh point (base/glove/runner) very much earlier than the ball is arriving.  If the throw is hosing the runner by a step or two, I'm golden.  Or if a track star R1 is already there, I'm solid.  I'm thinking if a runner is already in his slide but not yet to the base are the ones that are really biting me.  The more we talk about this, the more clear it seems that I need to try to turn earlier after I confirm a good throw from F2. 

As for footwork during the course of the play, I don't think I move much from B, but I do know that I try to move a step or two directly towards the base: closer to the throw (line between plate and 2B and deeper towards the base.)  The footwork for achieving that is a guess, but I can say with confidence that I get locked down and do not make many calls while moving.  If anything, I'm not gaining enough ground toward the call from wherever I start the play.  I'm going to try to find some games I have recorded plus be more mindful of how I am executing this with my body movement.

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen.