Baseball Canada Guys...... Help!

[jnazz]

Just finished writing my exam and have an issue with when a manager's trip to the mound starts. I know most manuals (JR and PBUC) state that the trip starts when the manager crosses the foul lines and finishes when they leave the 18' circle. I got a few questions wrong on my exam last year using this interpretation. There were two questions on my exam this year and I got them correct by disregarding this interpretation. So, my question is, for Baseball Canada, when does a manager's trip to the mound start? And where are we finding this interpretation?

[Guest]

Just finished writing my exam and have an issue with when a manager's trip to the mound starts. I know most manuals (JR and PBUC) state that the trip starts when the manager crosses the foul lines and finishes when they leave the 18' circle. I got a few questions wrong on my exam last year using this interpretation. Threre were two questions on my exam this year and I got them correct by disregarding this interpretation. So, my question is, for Baseball Canada, when does a manager's trip to the mound start? And where are we finding this interpretation?

B-Can: Steps into the dirt circle

[johneng]

And where are we finding this interpretation?

8.06 Official Baseball Rules

[Rich Ives]

And where are we finding this interpretation?

8.06 Official Baseball Rules

8.06 says it ends when he leaves. Doesn't say when it starts.

Per the MLBUM 7.12

A trip to the mound begins when the manager or coach crosses the foul line. The trip ends when the manager or coach leaves the 18-foot circle surrounding the pitcher's rubber.

[Guest]

And where are we finding this interpretation?

8.06 Official Baseball Rules

8.06 says it ends when he leaves. Doesn't say when it starts.

Per the MLBUM 7.12

A trip to the mound begins when the manager or coach crosses the foul line. The trip ends when the manager or coach leaves the 18-foot circle surrounding the pitcher's rubber.

You did read the part that said "under Baseball Canada", right? No? Didn't think so.

jnazz,

From the Baseball Canada document entitled "Baseball Canada Approved Rule Interpretations" (the most recent version there is, I believe, is 2009).

Trip to the Mound

Beginning of a Trip

8.06 A manager or coach is considered to have concluded his visit to the mound when he leaves the 18-foot circle surrounding the pitcher’s rubber.

A trip to the mound begins and ends with the 18-foot circle surrounding the pitcher’s rubber.

Emphasis is that of the B-Can Umpires Committee.

[mstaylor]

I'm glad I'm not Canadian, they come up with screwy interps. Of course, some of the European countries don't use anything except what the rulebook says.

[Guest]

I'm glad I'm not Canadian, they come up with screwy interps. Of course, some of the European countries don't use anything except what the rulebook says.

I have to be careful because this is the internet, anyone can read this, and with my blog, the tie-in to my shirt number, hometown, etc etc, it really isn't that hard to figure out who I am.

That being said, I do not see the reason for some of the interpretation amendments that currently exist and contradict standard OBR practice. But I do not make the rules, I merely enforce them. And that's all I'll say.

PS Mike - try this one on for size: if you're playing a game under Ontario (OBA Rules), the trip to the mound begins when skip crosses the foul line. If you play under Baseball Canada rules, as above, it begins when skip enters the circle of the mound. But any game in Ontario uses all Baseball Canada Case Play Interpretations. Have fun figuring that out It only took me eight years.

[Rich Ives]

And where are we finding this interpretation?

8.06 Official Baseball Rules

8.06 says it ends when he leaves. Doesn't say when it starts.

Per the MLBUM 7.12

A trip to the mound begins when the manager or coach crosses the foul line. The trip ends when the manager or coach leaves the 18-foot circle surrounding the pitcher's rubber.

You did read the part that said "under Baseball Canada", right? No? Didn't think so.

Yes I read that it was about Baseball Canada

Did YOU read where johneng said: "8.06 Official Baseball Rules" ?

OBR is as I posted.

BC may be different , but johneng is incorrect about what the official baseball rule says.

[yawetag]

PS Mike - try this one on for size: if you're playing a game under Ontario (OBA Rules), the trip to the mound begins when skip crosses the foul line. If you play under Baseball Canada rules, as above, it begins when skip enters the circle of the mound. But any game in Ontario uses all Baseball Canada Case Play Interpretations. Have fun figuring that out It only took me eight years.

What if Skip never enters the dirt circle?

[tiger49]

I'm glad I'm not Canadian, they come up with screwy interps. Of course, some of the European countries don't use anything except what the rulebook says.

I have to be careful because this is the internet, anyone can read this, and with my blog, the tie-in to my shirt number, hometown, etc etc, it really isn't that hard to figure out who I am.

That being said, I do not see the reason for some of the interpretation amendments that currently exist and contradict standard OBR practice. But I do not make the rules, I merely enforce them. And that's all I'll say.

PS Mike - try this one on for size: if you're playing a game under Ontario (OBA Rules), the trip to the mound begins when skip crosses the foul line. If you play under Baseball Canada rules, as above, it begins when skip enters the circle of the mound. But any game in Ontario uses all Baseball Canada Case Play Interpretations. Have fun figuring that out It only took me eight years.

Gotta remember outside of Ontario there is a large emphasis on Senior ball (22 and over). At this level there are a lot of playing managers who are already in between the foul lines. Also at the lower levels they wanted to make it clear that a coach is free to visit any other defensive player without being charged a trip, provided that the player visited doesn't visit with the pitcher right after. Same goes if the pitcher meets the manager half-way.

24 Under Baseball Canada rules the two trip limit applies to all levels, not so in Baseball Ontario. The added rule interpretation manual that this rule comes from was put together for use at National Championships, some provinces use bits and pieces from it as they seem fit.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

I'm glad I'm not Canadian, they come up with screwy interps. Of course, some of the European countries don't use anything except what the rulebook says.

I'll take our "screwy" interps anytime.

Interesting comment coming from the land of FED rules!!!

[HokieUmp]

I'm glad I'm not Canadian, they come up with screwy interps. Of course, some of the European countries don't use anything except what the rulebook says.

I'll take our "screwy" interps anytime.

Interesting comment coming from the land of FED rules!!!

What I think he means there - and correct me if I'm wrong, Mike - is that BC takes the OBR ruleset, and provides a differing interp than what we have here. And that's when the interp comes from the EXACT same written rule in the book. Which looks screwy.

Yes, FED does wierd things. But it's also an entirely different ruleset. They don't interpret what happens with a balk differently than OBR - they have a different rule.

Does that distinction make sense? And Mike, is what I wrote where you were going with that?

In Australia, they use the IBAF book, which is still mostly OBR, but what they do that I liked when I was there was they don't have 3,000 different youth rulebooks. They just add things to the basic IBAF framework for the younger crowd. So, everyone's working off the same basic ruleset. For rule interps, I think they use PBUC, but I can't remember.

[tiger49]

I'm glad I'm not Canadian, they come up with screwy interps. Of course, some of the European countries don't use anything except what the rulebook says.

I'll take our "screwy" interps anytime.

Interesting comment coming from the land of FED rules!!!

What I think he means there - and correct me if I'm wrong, Mike - is that BC takes the OBR ruleset, and provides a differing interp than what we have here. And that's when the interp comes from the EXACT same written rule in the book. Which looks screwy.

Yes, FED does wierd things. But it's also an entirely different ruleset. They don't interpret what happens with a balk differently than OBR - they have a different rule.

Does that distinction make sense? And Mike, is what I wrote where you were going with that?

In Australia, they use the IBAF book, which is still mostly OBR, but what they do that I liked when I was there was they don't have 3,000 different youth rulebooks. They just add things to the basic IBAF framework for the younger crowd. So, everyone's working off the same basic ruleset. For rule interps, I think they use PBUC, but I can't remember.

Basically the same thing in Canada most of our rule interpretations that differ from PBUC are in place due to the changes that you see in amateur ball here. At the Senior level I would say at least 50% of the teams have at least one coach who is also a player, and therefore never crosses the foul line when he has a visit with his pitcher. This interpretation on paper gives a coach coming LF, SS, or the bench the same parameters on his visit.

[Rich Ives]

PS Mike - try this one on for size: if you're playing a game under Ontario (OBA Rules), the trip to the mound begins when skip crosses the foul line. If you play under Baseball Canada rules, as above, it begins when skip enters the circle of the mound. But any game in Ontario uses all Baseball Canada Case Play Interpretations. Have fun figuring that out It only took me eight years.

What if Skip never enters the dirt circle?

So - what's the answer here?

[tiger49]

PS Mike - try this one on for size: if you're playing a game under Ontario (OBA Rules), the trip to the mound begins when skip crosses the foul line. If you play under Baseball Canada rules, as above, it begins when skip enters the circle of the mound. But any game in Ontario uses all Baseball Canada Case Play Interpretations. Have fun figuring that out It only took me eight years.

What if Skip never enters the dirt circle?

So - what's the answer here?

Tell them to take it to the mound. It is circumventing and still a charged trip, same as talking to F6 and then having him go directly to F1.

In the paper world trip starts when he enters the dirt circle, in the real world not much changes.

[mstaylor]

I'm glad I'm not Canadian, they come up with screwy interps. Of course, some of the European countries don't use anything except what the rulebook says.

I'll take our "screwy" interps anytime.

Interesting comment coming from the land of FED rules!!!

What I think he means there - and correct me if I'm wrong, Mike - is that BC takes the OBR ruleset, and provides a differing interp than what we have here. And that's when the interp comes from the EXACT same written rule in the book. Which looks screwy.

Yes, FED does wierd things. But it's also an entirely different ruleset. They don't interpret what happens with a balk differently than OBR - they have a different rule.

Does that distinction make sense? And Mike, is what I wrote where you were going with that?

In Australia, they use the IBAF book, which is still mostly OBR, but what they do that I liked when I was there was they don't have 3,000 different youth rulebooks. They just add things to the basic IBAF framework for the younger crowd. So, everyone's working off the same basic ruleset. For rule interps, I think they use PBUC, but I can't remember.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing, same rule, different interp. This isn't the only rule where it differes.

I will grant you that Fed has some interesting rulings. What you have to remember is that they consider them student athletes first so their rules gear toward that. They pass rules to stress participation, safety and sportsmanship.

As far as Australian rules, they do have one rulebook and use mostly pro interps but the guys teaching them are sometimes a little clueless. I belong to an Australian board and some of the answers contain some myths.

[yawetag]

Tell them to take it to the mound. It is circumventing and still a charged trip, same as talking to F6 and then having him go directly to F1.

In the paper world trip starts when he enters the dirt circle, in the real world not much changes.

If, as ump_24 states, the manager is also frequently a player on the team, at what point do you find it circumventing? If he's F8, how far do you let him walk in before you charge the conference?

If the manager is in the dugout, how far do you let him walk toward the field before he can turn around and walk-off without a conference?

[tiger49]

Tell them to take it to the mound. It is circumventing and still a charged trip, same as talking to F6 and then having him go directly to F1.

In the paper world trip starts when he enters the dirt circle, in the real world not much changes.

If, as ump_24 states, the manager is also frequently a player on the team, at what point do you find it circumventing? If he's F8, how far do you let him walk in before you charge the conference?

If the manager is in the dugout, how far do you let him walk toward the field before he can turn around and walk-off without a conference?

Interpretation: A player manager is the person who is designated by his team and is

recognized under the roster requirements.

1) A player (or player coach) may visit a pitcher as permitted by the umpire whether or not

time has been called. This would not be considered a trip to the mound.

2) A player manager who leaves his position to talk to his pitcher, whether or not time is

called, is subject to the same rules provisions as a non playing manager. Therefore, a trip

would be charged to the pitcher.

The rule is more in reference to the "timing" of the trip. It was written in such a way so that it appears regardless of the situation the manager has the same time to speak to his pitcher. The only change in my handling of the situation is to wait until the manager reaches the dirt circle before until starting my visit sequence (clean plate, record visit, short pause, walk up to break it up etc.)

Also a large number of fields are completely dirt, therefore there is no dirt circle.