Rule Dispute Approach

[beerguy55]

I see a lot of posts on this site that involve coaches arguing the rules (most of the time wrongly).

I'm curious to why these conversations ever last more than five seconds.  Sure, I get that once in a while you may go to your partner to be sure...but, if you know the rule (or at least believe you do) why isn't this shut down sooner?  IMO this conversation should be shorter than disagreements over judgment calls.

"Coach, you filing a protest?"  Whether yes or no we have "Good, conversation's over".

 

Early in my coaching career I once had an umpire say "you're free to protest, but you'll lose - if you want to give me five minutes after the game is over I'll show you the rule".  We talked after the game for an hour and we had a hot dog together.   Completely changed my outlook on how to approach this, how to work with (not against) umpires, and realized my conversation with an umpire on a rule should never be more than clarifying their position on the rule and then deciding whether or not to protest...not to mention reading the F*#King rule book.   

 

I know this isn't practical in most scenarios, but just wanted to share a positive experience.

[JonnyCat]

They last more than  five seconds because one of two things happen.

The coach continues to argue, and the umpire won't shut it down. Or, the umpire wants to explain why they are right and have a F*#King debate with the coach.

I keep it short and sweet. I'm not listening to a coach for very long. I have also offered on occasion to explain the rule to coaches after the game. (Obviously depends on the temperature of the game and call). I've had very few takers.

Unfortunately, it's ultimately the fault of the umpire.

[SH0102]

@beerguy55I have said this for quite some time. There is no reason to argue a rule. I am willing to explain my ruling if need be, but not argue. You think I’m wrong, put your $ where your mouth is and protest (I’m speaking about summer ball here)

[JimmyK]

Unfortunately, in high school ball, some states do not allow protests.  This makes it tough because you cannot shut it down by asking them this.  What makes it worse, is that after all the discussion, they will not take the time to find the real answer.  It's just easier to continue to blame the umpire. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

     High school down is amateur baseball. And yet, I am continually amazed at coaches in my market who have been around the HS game for 10, 20, and in some cases 30 years...who do not know the rules. Hell, look at Aaron Boone...look at the stuff all of the pro guys don't know.

     I personally feel that if a coach is respectful on a rule implementation or a rule application...sure, I will allow him to ask questions. If I feel they are trying to learn something or are otherwise unclear...sure. But, if I think they are out there with pole and a hook on a fishing expedition, I will shut that down with, "Coach, what is your question, please?" If they are unable or unwilling to ask a question or if they start repeating themselves or if it's judgement, then I shut that down. One of the most common rule application discussions is base awards. Particularly when it has to do with whether a pitcher was engaged with the rubber or not when he threw the ball out of play.

     We don't like talking about this because it's a gray area of The Craft. What I do is not what the next guy does...and so on. But, there is a customer service aspect to officiating sports. We're not the concierge at The Plaza...but if we can finesse an interaction, we sometimes do that.

     The one item I wish the state associations would make a POE or include in their pre-season presentations is talking with coaches and explaining to them about what they can appeal on and why. It blows my mind that not only do coaches come out (calmly or otherwise...) and ask me to go to my partner on a play at the plate...but then they get abusive when I say no. A lot of times, they know I'm not going to my partner...they just want a time out to allow their players to reset, or maybe they're on a fishing expedition or maybe...a million reasons why they are out on that. That's fine. But, when I say no, I'm not going to my partner, that's my call, I was right where I need to be and oh by the way my partner is 70-some feet away and you get hostile? Uhhhhh...no. No, coach.

~Dawg