high school force play slide rule

[mac266]

NFHS rulebook, pre-season scrimmage.

I was working the bases.  With a runner on 1st and one out, the batter hit a hard one-hopper to the shortstop.  The runner was already going, so he was almost to 2nd by the time the ball got to him.  The shortstop fielded the ball and stepped on 2nd base for the first out as the runner was sliding in, so the SS jumped up to avoid him and tried to throw to 1st for the double play.  The runner was sliding with his buttocks on the ground (which the rule says he must do in a feet-first slide), but his torso was upright.  He slid through the bag, and his torso hit the shortstop's legs, causing him to pinwheel in the air and throw errant.

This is a classic force play slide rule, and the high school rule book (which this was a high school game) specifically prohibits sliding through the bag.  So there was no question on this one.  Other rule books allow a little more, but I would have called it under the MLB rule book, too.  So I called the interference and awarded the out at 1st, ending the inning.

The coach that this went against came unglued.  I expect coaches to try to make a case on close plays or on oddities where they don't understand the rule, but this wasn't even a close call to make.  I would probably get fired if I hadn't made it!  During the argument, this guy vehemently argued that HE TEACHES HIS PLAYERS TO DO THIS!  Granted, when you and I were kids, we were taught to "truck" the guy and knock the ball loose.  That was ok under the rules back then.  But it isn't anymore, and it hasn't been for a long time, so his statement concerns me greatly.  I filed an official report with our state athletic association to address it with him before the season begins, because every time I see one of his guys do that, I'm ejecting.

[Tborze]

1 hour ago, mac266 said:

NFHS rulebook, pre-season scrimmage.

I was working the bases.  With a runner on 1st and one out, the batter hit a hard one-hopper to the shortstop.  The runner was already going, so he was almost to 2nd by the time the ball got to him.  The shortstop fielded the ball and stepped on 2nd base for the first out as the runner was sliding in, so the SS jumped up to avoid him and tried to throw to 1st for the double play.  The runner was sliding with his buttocks on the ground (which the rule says he must do in a feet-first slide), but his torso was upright.  He slid through the bag, and his torso hit the shortstop's legs, causing him to pinwheel in the air and throw errant.

This is a classic force play slide rule, and the high school rule book (which this was a high school game) specifically prohibits sliding through the bag.  So there was no question on this one.  Other rule books allow a little more, but I would have called it under the MLB rule book, too.  So I called the interference and awarded the out at 1st, ending the inning.

The coach that this went against came unglued.  I expect coaches to try to make a case on close plays or on oddities where they don't understand the rule, but this wasn't even a close call to make.  I would probably get fired if I hadn't made it!  During the argument, this guy vehemently argued that HE TEACHES HIS PLAYERS TO DO THIS!  Granted, when you and I were kids, we were taught to "truck" the guy and knock the ball loose.  That was ok under the rules back then.  But it isn't anymore, and it hasn't been for a long time, so his statement concerns me greatly.  I filed an official report with our state athletic association to address it with him before the season begins, because every time I see one of his guys do that, I'm ejecting.

Is there a question here or are you looking for affirmation?

Did you follow protocol and address this with your local association first?  

Ejecting over a FPSR?
Sounds personal to me!  

Fired?  Maybe! 

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

@mac266, brother I have you nailing this. 8-4-2b, "A runner is out when he does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play..."

That's textbook FED FPSR with a correct double-play awarded to the defense. That coach does not understand the rules and is not "teaching" his players correctly. Where he is having a "problem" is that this call is frequently missed or deemed not worthy of being called when it should have been called. He has likely violated this rule, not have it called against his runners...and thinks it's ok. All we can do is add that to the pre-game checklist and talk about it in training. As someone said to me once, "Look for those calls. Expect those calls. We don't want to miss grabbing an out!" 

If the coach came out without asking for time and waiting for time to be granted? Me: "Coach, the inning is over. This is a verbal warning. If you continue and do not return to your dugout, you will be ejected."

If the coach came out and DID ask for time AND waited for time to be granted? I'll give him a bit more context on my ruling but, I'm not conducting a rules clinic. Me: "Coach, in my judgement the runner into second violated the force play slide rule and by rule is out. Additionally, by rule, the batter/runner into first is out and the inning is over." If he continues beyond that? "If you continue and do not return to your dugout, you will be ejected."

Nailed this, Mac...

~Dawg

[UMP45]

Read rule 2-32 Art.2.

[mac266]

I'm not asking for any affirmation, nor a rule citation.  I have it down pat.  I know the call was right.  I didn't ask a question whatsoever, just telling a story.  At the high school level, I'm absolutely appalled that this guy is teaching his kids -- CHILDREN -- to do this.  I know we were taught to do that back in the day, but that rule changed a long time ago.  I already escalated it to the powers-that-be so he can be corrected before the regular season begins.

[mac266]

15 hours ago, Tborze said:

Is there a question here or are you looking for affirmation?

Did you follow protocol and address this with your local association first?  

Ejecting over a FPSR?
Sounds personal to me!  

Fired?  Maybe! 

 

Your reading comprehension is terrible...

[Tborze]

43 minutes ago, mac266 said:

Your reading comprehension is terrible...

Possibly, but my comprehension of the rule is not. Basically, you  said you were going to EJ his players if they did it again. 

You also seem to imply that  sliding with your torso up is illegal. Then you say he slid through the base. Hmm

Maybe the D coach needs to teach his SS how to turn 2! 

 

 

 

[umpstu]

19 hours ago, mac266 said:

NFHS rulebook, pre-season scrimmage.

I was working the bases.  With a runner on 1st and one out, the batter hit a hard one-hopper to the shortstop.  The runner was already going, so he was almost to 2nd by the time the ball got to him.  The shortstop fielded the ball and stepped on 2nd base for the first out as the runner was sliding in, so the SS jumped up to avoid him and tried to throw to 1st for the double play.  The runner was sliding with his buttocks on the ground (which the rule says he must do in a feet-first slide), but his torso was upright.  He slid through the bag, and his torso hit the shortstop's legs, causing him to pinwheel in the air and throw errant.

This is a classic force play slide rule, and the high school rule book (which this was a high school game) specifically prohibits sliding through the bag.  So there was no question on this one.  Other rule books allow a little more, but I would have called it under the MLB rule book, too.  So I called the interference and awarded the out at 1st, ending the inning.

The coach that this went against came unglued.  I expect coaches to try to make a case on close plays or on oddities where they don't understand the rule, but this wasn't even a close call to make.  I would probably get fired if I hadn't made it!  During the argument, this guy vehemently argued that HE TEACHES HIS PLAYERS TO DO THIS!  Granted, when you and I were kids, we were taught to "truck" the guy and knock the ball loose.  That was ok under the rules back then.  But it isn't anymore, and it hasn't been for a long time, so his statement concerns me greatly.  I filed an official report with our state athletic association to address it with him before the season begins, because every time I see one of his guys do that, I'm ejecting.

When the runner slid through the base did he make contact with the fielder on the other side of the bag?  Or did he make contact with the fielder while the fielder was on the bag?