Ejection for malicious contact

[okump96]

JUCO D1 conference game

Bottom of 7th, 1 out, runners 1st and 3rd.

The batter hits ball down the 3rd baseline, F5 fields ball and R3 breaks for home, F5 throws home to try to retire R3, F2 is up the line and fields the throw, R3 turns into F2 and tries to knock the ball loose, colliding with F2 and knocking him down. I saw R3's hands come up for the collision, in my judgment he wasn't protecting himself. I call R3 out on interference and eject him for malicious contact.

would any of you guys make this call?

[LMSANS]

I don't do college, but sounds like malicious contact to me. Definitely in Fed I would call it.

I say "good call!"

[Umpire in Chief]

I've been hesitant to respond as I don't do college ball yet and do not know their rules set well (if you've seen some of my posts at ABUA you may not think I know FED well either:( ) But I agree with Larry.

[Dobie]

JUCO D1 conference game

Bottom of 7th, 1 out, runners 1st and 3rd.

The batter hits ball down the 3rd baseline, F5 fields ball and R3 breaks for home, F5 throws home to try to retire R3, F2 is up the line and fields the throw, R3 turns into F2 and tries to knock the ball loose, colliding with F2 and knocking him down. I saw R3's hands come up for the collision, in my judgment he wasn't protecting himself. I call R3 out on interference and eject him for malicious contact.

would any of you guys make this call?

This is certainly a HTBT play. That said, in NCAA Baseball, the MC has to be very obvious to me before I call it. Remember, that unlike FED rules, NCAA rules allow a runner to run over F2 in certain situations.

From the NCAA Rule book:

Rule 8, Section 7 (a) A.R. 1- If the fielder blocks the path of the base runner to the base (plate), the runner may make contact, slide into, or collide with a fielder as long as the runner is making a legitimate attempt to reach the base or plate.

So if F2 is blocking the plate, I will usually not call MC. Of course, if RX puts a forearm to F2's nose... I probably have something.

[okump96]

what i saw made me think mc immediately. r3 truned into f2 who was up the line and holding the ball. as dobie said "if he puts a forearm to f2's nose" i will always get it. this one wasn't quite that bad, but he did go after f2.

[UmpInVA]

JUCO D1 conference game

Bottom of 7th, 1 out, runners 1st and 3rd.

The batter hits ball down the 3rd baseline, F5 fields ball and R3 breaks for home, F5 throws home to try to retire R3, F2 is up the line and fields the throw, R3 turns into F2 and tries to knock the ball loose, colliding with F2 and knocking him down. I saw R3's hands come up for the collision, in my judgment he wasn't protecting himself. I call R3 out on interference and eject him for malicious contact.

would any of you guys make this call?

It's all about judgment. You judged the contact as malicious and enforced the rule. When I see malicious I enforce the rule also.

[okump96]

funny thing is i went back there 4 days later and the head coach comes up to me between innings and thanks me for it.

[umpire08]

i think that the umpire in this case in the best was thinking about the players safety to that end the umpire did what he needed to do most of the time you don't expect to be thanked for making a call like that but when it does happen your like where did that come from but this was a good ejection I would have done the same thing no matter what level i do High School or JUCO or Div I

Edited July 10, 2008 by umpire08
I messed up

[umpire08]

the umpire in this case was no doubt thinking about the safety of the players and with that in mind he did what he thought needed to be done and he acted had that happend to me i would have done the same thing whatever level i am at Youth Baseball HS JUCO you never expect to be thanked for something like that but when you get thanked your mind thinks where did that come from but good job blue from another umpire that loves it just as much as you do thanks again for standing up for the right and keeping baseball fun

[DesertRat]

Collisions between runners trying to score and catchers wanting to tag the runner out have always been and always will be part of baseball. It's unfortunate that an injury sometimes results to either player, but that's baseball. I don't see the value of, and would not enforce, rules that protect players from what has always been a normal risk of the game. If it were my play and the catcher dropped the ball and the runner touched the plate, he's safe and the run scores. Now, if afterwards, there's a fight as a result of the play (as often happens in these situations) there would probably be some ejections depending on who was the aggressor, who left their position or the dugout to get involved, etc. If the manager came out to complain about his catcher getting knocked down, I would probably ask the manager what kind of sissy he's got behind the plate, which would probably get the manager angry enough to do something warranting an ejection.

[mstaylor]

Collisions between runners trying to score and catchers wanting to tag the runner out have always been and always will be part of baseball. It's unfortunate that an injury sometimes results to either player, but that's baseball. I don't see the value of, and would not enforce, rules that protect players from what has always been a normal risk of the game. If it were my play and the catcher dropped the ball and the runner touched the plate, he's safe and the run scores. Now, if afterwards, there's a fight as a result of the play (as often happens in these situations) there would probably be some ejections depending on who was the aggressor, who left their position or the dugout to get involved, etc. If the manager came out to complain about his catcher getting knocked down, I would probably ask the manager what kind of sissy he's got behind the plate, which would probably get the manager angry enough to do something warranting an ejection.

You're kidding, right? This is a fine way to umpire at a pro level but anywhere they don't get paid to play, college and down, you have rules in place for the safety and sportsmanship of the participants. If the catcher has the ball then he is allowed to block the base. If the runner tries to knock the ball loose by any means besides a slide then most likely it will be interference. If he tries to roll the catcher then it's going to be MC and an ejection. If you don't enforce safety rules you are liable. If you don't enforce them because you don't like them or you think it's not baseball then don't do amatuer baseball.

[Umpire in Chief]

While I do agree with DesertRat in as much as I don't like the fact that the game is being watered down with a lot of safety rules, I do like the MC rule. Like the phrase says "malicious" i.e. intending to hurt. Intending to hurt someone is not part of the game at any level. I want the kids to play, play hard and play fair.

I have very few ejections over my career and I would bet MC is the number one reason I've had an ejection.

MC is a judgement call, I've found myself on more than one occasion defending my no MC call to a coach. Baseball is a contact sport and collisions will happen and sometimes there is no malicious intent behind a play ball, runner and fielder arrive at the same place at the same time and then you have a trainwreck.

It's hard to say what will be MC precisely, but a tell tale sign is a lowered shoulder. The runner raising his hands/forearms into the fielder, a tackle are a few tel tale signs.

[LMSANS]

Collisions between runners trying to score and catchers wanting to tag the runner out have always been and always will be part of baseball. It's unfortunate that an injury sometimes results to either player, but that's baseball. I don't see the value of, and would not enforce, rules that protect players from what has always been a normal risk of the game. If it were my play and the catcher dropped the ball and the runner touched the plate, he's safe and the run scores. Now, if afterwards, there's a fight as a result of the play (as often happens in these situations) there would probably be some ejections depending on who was the aggressor, who left their position or the dugout to get involved, etc. If the manager came out to complain about his catcher getting knocked down, I would probably ask the manager what kind of sissy he's got behind the plate, which would probably get the manager angry enough to do something warranting an ejection.

Wow! Don't let integrity get in your way...don't enforce the rules you don't like and then bait the coach because you chose not to enforce the rule.

[mstaylor]

I'm not advocating a contact free game but in youth baseball, which includes NCAA, you have rules put in by the governing bodies that we have to enforce. Trainwrecks are trainwrecks and are a part of baseball but intentionally taking out fielders is a whole different discussion. The FPSR is a rule that many disagree with but it is there to protect student atheletes and we are required to call it where applicable.

[DesertRat]

I retired from umpiring after the 1984 season after 15 years on the field. The game was way different back then. Safety and sportmanship were not a glimmer in anyone's eye. At all levels everyone played to win. I'm somewhat of a traditionalist as I like the lower and wider strike zone of the old days and hate the DH rule as I've always admired pitchers like Dontrelle Willis or Mike Hampton who are complete athletes. So I watch mostly NL games these days.

When I went to Bill Kinnmon umpire school in 1970 we were told it was OK to bait players and managers so you could toss them and in fact we were told how to do it but now that's frowned on even at the pro level and in fact some umpires have been disciplined for it. In the old days certain players and manager were simply jerks that added nothing to the game and we got them out of there so they didn't hold up the game by constantly running their mouths. And we called a big strike zone so that the hitters would come up there to use the bat rather than wait for a walk.

I would have a tough time deciding whether a runner was trying to score or trying to injure the catcher. I played the game in HS and scored more than one run by bowling over the catcher blocking the plate and can tell you from experience I was not trying to injure the catcher--I just wanted to score the run by whatever it took to do that. It's difficult to judge intent. Does the catcher get to stand up to block the plate? I had this happen and the runner hit him under the chin with both arms so he dropped the ball. The catcher had no business doing this so I couldn't very well penalize the runner and it was no obstruction since the catcher was completely passive. I let the run score and then a fight broke out resulting in multiple ejections on both teams. I think the standard should be whether what the player is doing is a accepted and legitimate part of baseball based on the history of the game or is the player's action something other than what would normally be expected in the situation?