Beyond Succeeding Base

[BigBlue4u]

INFHS Rules:

In the below situation, after the ball has been thrown out of play, can R1 return to touch 1B?  Or is he considered on or beyond a succeeding base when the ball is declared dead?  (8-4-2-q)

No outs, R1 stealing on the pitch. The batter lines out to the shortstop. R1 slides into 2nd base and makes no attempt to return to 1st base. R1 is on second when the shortstop throws to 1st base to double off R1. The throw is wild and goes into the dugout. R1 was standing on 2nd base, making no attempt to return to 1st, when the ball goes into the dugout.  When R1 is awarded 3B, (first play by infielder, 2 bases TOP) may he legally return and touch 1B, before then touching 2B and arriving at 3B on the award? Or would he be out on a legal and successful appeal that he left the base early?

So, is this just a tough luck situation for the runner trying to steal 2B, or under the circumstances, can he return and touch 1B?  

Rule cite, please.

Thanks everybody.

 

[Jimurray]

50 minutes ago, BigBlue4u said:

INFHS Rules:

In the below situation, after the ball has been thrown out of play, can R1 return to touch 1B?  Or is he considered on or beyond a succeeding base when the ball is declared dead?  (8-4-2-q)

No outs, R1 stealing on the pitch. The batter lines out to the shortstop. R1 slides into 2nd base and makes no attempt to return to 1st base. R1 is on second when the shortstop throws to 1st base to double off R1. The throw is wild and goes into the dugout. R1 was standing on 2nd base, making no attempt to return to 1st, when the ball goes into the dugout.  When R1 is awarded 3B, (first play by infielder, 2 bases TOP) may he legally return and touch 1B, before then touching 2B and arriving at 3B on the award? Or would he be out on a legal and successful appeal that he left the base early?

So, is this just a tough luck situation for the runner trying to steal 2B, or under the circumstances, can he return and touch 1B?  

Rule cite, please.

Thanks everybody.

 

He can not legally retouch 1B. “8.2.5 SITUATION A: With R1 on first and no outs, B2 hits a long fly ball over the head of F8. R1 thinks the ball will fall in for a hit and attempts to advance to third. However, F8 makes the catch. F8 throws to first base, but the ball goes into ­dead-ball territory. R1, who is attempting to return to first base, is between second and third base when the ball becomes dead. RULING: A runner may not return to a base that he left too soon on a caught fly ball if he was on or beyond a succeeding base when the ball became dead, or if he advances and touches a succeeding base after the ball became dead. Upon a proper appeal, R1 shall be called out. If no proper appeal is made by the defense, R1 will be awarded third base. (5-2-2b, 8-2-5)"

[Rich Ives]

23 hours ago, Jimurray said:

He can not legally retouch 1B. “8.2.5 SITUATION A: With R1 on first and no outs, B2 hits a long fly ball over the head of F8. R1 thinks the ball will fall in for a hit and attempts to advance to third. However, F8 makes the catch. F8 throws to first base, but the ball goes into ­dead-ball territory. R1, who is attempting to return to first base, is between second and third base when the ball becomes dead. RULING: A runner may not return to a base that he left too soon on a caught fly ball if he was on or beyond a succeeding base when the ball became dead, or if he advances and touches a succeeding base after the ball became dead. Upon a proper appeal, R1 shall be called out. If no proper appeal is made by the defense, R1 will be awarded third base. (5-2-2b, 8-2-5)"

Not the same. In the OP R1 was ON 2b, not beyond it. He can return.

[Jimurray]

33 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Not the same. In the OP R1 was ON 2b, not beyond it. He can return.

Not exactly the same but did you not read “on or beyond” which is in the rule and caseplay? He can’t return legally in FED or NCAA (not attempting to return when the ball became dead in NCAA). 

[TOMUIC]

NCAA 8-6-“Note 2” clearly states that the “next base” or “base beyond” refers to the position of the runner at the time the ball went out of play.(Same as OBR)

No reference is made to the direction of the runner or whether or not he is attempting to return.

Note 3 (right below Note 2) refers to the runner’s award, which IS determined by whether or not he is attempting to return to his original base after a caught fly ball (same as OBR),  BUT has nothing to do with determining the LEGALITY of the runner’s return to his original base.

Finally, I recall seeing an NCAA test question recently whose answer seems  to contradict Note”2” cited above, which doesn’t do anyone any good!

 

[TOMUIC]

Sorry Exact NCAA RULE citing is

8-6-a “Notes 1 & 2