TOMUIC

Good for you. That is what the problem is with the OBR, the award on the missed base (on an overthrow) and this case of obstruction is not clearly spelled out, and yet the theory is that the award is made from the last base legally touched, (which means the base they go back and correct the mistake at). So basically it seems to be still up in the air.

You are referring to the play in which a runner returns to a base left too soon on a caught fly ball. His original award based on his location may be changed when he goes back to retouch the base left to soon and now the award will be made from the original base; many members on this site also feel the same concept applies to a missed base. However, it is not specifically stated in the rules or the manual for a missed base. I think the original question regarding the obstruction award was hinting towards this idea of the original base after the base running mistake is corrected.

I don’t think you finished your thought

So what..,.?

6.01(h)(1) states that the obstructed runner is awarded at least one base beyond the last base legally touched before the obstruction. Does the runner get home or second after correcting his missing of first base?

That is correct in the OBR AND NCAA. THE runner can legally return to touch first base. The original question asked refers to the award for obstruction, home or second, based on OBR 6.01(h)(1).

In USSSA SLOW PITCH, ball remains alive, and the runner is not out unless his act is intentional; if it’s an intentional act ,the ball is dead, the runner is out and runners remain where they are unless forced due to the batter being awarded first.

Good point Jim, replay does effect things in today’s game.

After there are three out, the only action that can take place is a fourth out appeal. No bases can be run (or missed), no runs can score,etc.

The timing of the events does indeed matter. The MLBUM clearly states that a runner cannot return to touch a missed base after the third out. He might physically do so, but if the defense makes a proper appeal, he becomes “the apparent fourth out”.

Clearly stated in MLBUM, no run scores.

OBR 5.08 has a general statement that says “….the runner is out when the umpire sustains the appeal…” maybe this helps in your quest to determine if it should be “time of miss or time of appeal”?

The statement from the Wendelstadt manual applies to a plays like the following : loaded bases one out, on a base clearing hit the runners from second and third score, the runner from first misses second before scoring. The batter runner is thrown out attempting a triple. (Now two out), The defense now appeals and the runner from first is called out for missing second base. At the time he missed the base he was in a force situation. No runs score. The batter Runner being thrown out behind the other runners does not remove the force. However, the Wendelstadt manual does not address situations where the following runner is retired on a force out (whether by natural action or appeal). Let it be noted that the last time the Wendelstadt manual seems to be printed was 2015. There are several items in it that are not accurate or contradict each other, and I don’t know how he uses the manual in his school if it’s not totally up-to-date. I am not the first person to make a comment regarding this. Wendelstadt does not address the most recent interpretation of order of appeals, which has been confirmed by an instructor in his school, Jim Evans, and the Marazzi play#3. All of these discussions have taken place on this site over the last year or two. If retiring a following runner (who was forced) BEFORE retiring the preceding runner (at his “forced” base), DOES NOT REMOVE THE FORCE on the preceding runner, then the “order of appeals” means nothing and the three references cited above are incorrect. I’ll take my chances with the three above before Wendelstadt.

Once again, the second paragraph above is the one that aligns with what Wendelstadt says in his manual. Everything else written above is found beyond his manual (i.e. Evans interpretation and the Marazzi #3) These two concepts are not really contradictory to each other.

Nothing has changed Wendelstadt ruling is fine for when the following runner is not put out on a force out because time of missed base then matters. However. the order of appeals makes it clear that the force is lost if the following runner is put out on a force out.