Two runners on the same base

[Guest John]

If a runner on 1st runs to 2nd base and the runner on 2nd base stays on the base, if both runners are touching the base at the same time, is one of the runners automatically out without being tagged?

[SH0102]

Just now, Guest John said:

If a runner on 1st runs to 2nd base and the runner on 2nd base stays on the base, if both runners are touching the base at the same time, is one of the runners automatically out without being tagged?

No, it is not an automatic out unless R1 passes R2 (technically possible with R2 on first base side of bag and R1 on third base side).

In a force situation, R2 would be out when tagged as R1 is forced to advance there and R2 to third.

In a non-force situation...let’s say grounder to first, step on first to retire batter, then original occupier (R2) has the right to the bag and R1 would be out when tagged.

Typically this situation occurs most in a rundown, when someone tries to stay in rundown long enough for following runner to move up, then defense runs them back to base and both are there.

[agdz59]

No.

Which runner to tag?  Well, if the trailing runner was forced to second, the lead runner loses the right to the base.  If there is no force, the lead runner maintains the right to the base.  So if there was a force, tag the lead runner, if no force, tag the trail runner.

Don't want to learn the rule? Tag 'em both.

[beerguy55]

14 hours ago, SH0102 said:

unless R1 passes R2 (technically possible with R2 on first base side of bag and R1 on third base side).

My understanding if both runners are touching the bag there is no determination of one having passed the other...they're both effectively in the same place...only when one leaves the base is it possible for one to be past the other.

Is that incorrect?

[beerguy55]

14 hours ago, agdz59 said:

Don't want to learn the rule? Tag 'em both

This is what I've always told my fielders - tag them both, the ump will take care of it.

[SH0102]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

My understanding if both runners are touching the bag there is no determination of one having passed the other...they're both effectively in the same place...only when one leaves the base is it possible for one to be past the other.

Is that incorrect?

I’m not so good with technology, but there are diagrams showing where one has passed the base, so if R2 has one foot on the bag closest to first and other off the bag closer to first, and R1 were to go by him momentum wise, so now has one foot toward third off the bag and other on edge of bag closest to third, he would have passed him.

Highly unlikely but was just trying to address “is it an automatic out”

[Senor Azul]

From the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (p. 162 with accompanying illustration on p. 163):

If two runners are ever touching the same base, they occupy the same position and cannot be called out for passing.

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (p. 46):

A runner is considered to have passed a base if he has both feet on the ground beyond the back edge of the base or beyond the edge of the base in the direction to which he is advancing. The direction the runner is advancing determines the edges of the base when defining when a runner has passed a base.

[SH0102]

1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (p. 162 with accompanying illustration on p. 163):

If two runners are ever touching the same base, they occupy the same position and cannot be called out for passing.

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (p. 46):

A runner is considered to have passed a base if he has both feet on the ground beyond the back edge of the base or beyond the edge of the base in the direction to which he is advancing. The direction the runner is advancing determines the edges of the base when defining when a runner has passed a base.

I’ve been proven wrong, glad to learn something new