Throwing to unoccupied base with 3-2 count and 2 out

[Guest Guest]

With R1 and 3-2 count with 2 out, and a RHP on the mound, the runner will be going as soon the pitcher raises his front leg. Why dont coaches tell their pitcher in a key spot in the game to raise their leg and wheel towards second? Assuming the runner is running, it is a legal move correct? I've never seen this tried at any level.

[noumpere]

1) Yes, it's legal (if R1 is running).

2) At all levels, runners taught (or should be taught) "be sure he commits to home" before running.

[Replacematt]

8 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

With R1 and 3-2 count with 2 out, and a RHP on the mound, the runner will be going as soon the pitcher raises his front leg. Why dont coaches tell their pitcher in a key spot in the game to raise their leg and wheel towards second? Assuming the runner is running, it is a legal move correct? I've never seen this tried at any level.

It's legal. Runners should not be committing to run until the motion home, so that's why you don't see it.

[Guest Guest]

Huh. As a player I can tell you I always ran in that spot as soon as the pitcher raised his leg. It was only as a runner on 2nd or 3rd that I was concerned about waiting until he committed home, and I dont really ever hear any coaches yelling to "wait until he commits" to runners at 1st base in this spot. I'll pay more attention now that I am thinking of it. Seems like a decent risk reward for a F1 to risk a balk to try to grab a free out by doing this depending on the game situation. 

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

Huh. As a player I can tell you I always ran in that spot as soon as the pitcher raised his leg. It was only as a runner on 2nd or 3rd that I was concerned about waiting until he committed home, and I dont really ever hear any coaches yelling to "wait until he commits" to runners at 1st base in this spot. I'll pay more attention now that I am thinking of it. Seems like a decent risk reward for a F1 to risk a balk to try to grab a free out by doing this depending on the game situation. 

As a player, I treated it like a hit-and-run, not a steal...I'm making sure he's going to the plate and then I'm taking the head start...and that's all it is...The guy at third is typically a jogging start, he's scoring if it's hit anywhere, and unless a swinging bunt occurs he's not worried about beating any play...R2 is just wanting a head start enough to score on any single to the outfield.   R1 is just wanting a few extra steps to force the infielders to throw to first instead of second.

But, sure, with bases loaded it's low risk to turn and throw to second...second IS occupied, and maybe you'll get lucky and create some kind of rundown some where...of course, for me, I think trying to get the batter is still the higher percentage play.

[roothog66]

Yep. At lower levels it works great. I stole a lot of easy outs just like this over the years, even through high school ages. The worst case scenario is you end up with a runner at second and you can try it again without worrying about the balk. However, you need to do it either early to put it in their head and slow down the jump from first in that situation or keep it in your back pocket for a strategic moment in the game, because if it works once, they won't be leaving so quickly again.

[roothog66]

On 5/5/2021 at 1:00 PM, beerguy55 said:

As a player, I treated it like a hit-and-run, not a steal...I'm making sure he's going to the plate and then I'm taking the head start...and that's all it is...The guy at third is typically a jogging start, he's scoring if it's hit anywhere, and unless a swinging bunt occurs he's not worried about beating any play...R2 is just wanting a head start enough to score on any single to the outfield.   R1 is just wanting a few extra steps to force the infielders to throw to first instead of second.

But, sure, with bases loaded it's low risk to turn and throw to second...second IS occupied, and maybe you'll get lucky and create some kind of rundown some where...of course, for me, I think trying to get the batter is still the higher percentage play.

If second is occupied, you don't have to actually throw the ball. In fact, many times, with bases juiced, you want to wheel, feint to second and see if you can get R3 caught too far off.